June 1, 2021

BONUS: Ted Lasso's Lessons on Leadership (with Dr. Mike Commito)

A discussion with hockey author Dr. Mike Commito about Ted Lasso.


Welcome back to the Crown & Anchor, Greyhounds! On this bonus episode Christian and Brett host the fantastic Dr. Mike Commito to discuss a presentation he recently gave to his colleagues at Cambrian College breaking down some of Ted Lasso's lessons on leadership.

Our conversation touches on hockey, supporter culture, and parenting. We  also chat about whether it would be more difficult to explain the offside rule or the icing rule, and how Ted would fare as the head coach of a Canadian hockey team in the NHL.

Discussed On This Episode


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A full transcript of this episode can be found here.

Richmond Til We Die is a conversation about the Apple TV+ show Ted Lasso. A place where fans (and curious newcomers) come together to discuss the characters, their relationships to each other, and how they're able to make us laugh until we can hardly breathe one minute and then feel with the deepest parts of our hearts the next. When you're here, you're a Greyhound!

Transcript

Christian  
Hey, Christian. Sup, Brett?

Brett   
Did you know there's an incredibly easy way to support our podcast?

Christian  
I did know that Brett. In fact, I am leaving a rating and writing a review on Apple podcast app as we speak. Wow, Christian,

Brett   
thank you for supporting the show. I gotta say that's some impressive multitasking. you're reviewing a podcast and hosting a bonus episode at the same time, right?

Christian  
Yeah, well, I'm probably gonna write something snarky about how we have spoilers in our bonus episodes, but I'm still planning on leaving a five star rating. Well,

Brett   
you know, in the words of Dani Rojas tough but fair. In the Spirit of St. Dani listeners, sharing this show with your friends is an easy way to give away joy for free. For baby podcasts like ours. Word of mouth recommendations are so important.

Christian  
Yes. ratings, reviews, recommendations. And subscriptions are super important to the impact of show's ranking and make it easier for other Ted lasso fans to find the show. Plus, you never have to wonder if there's a new episode, because when you're a subscriber, new episodes automatically download when you open your podcast app automatically.

Brett   
That sounds like some newfangled word the youths would use. Actually, it's been around since the 1940s. Hmm. I hope that knowledge comes in handy for the next time. I'm at trivia night. Okay, that's enough of our yammering. We hope you'll enjoy this bonus episode. And as always, thanks for listening.

Christian  
Welcome back to the crown and anchor greyhounds. This is a bonus episode of Richmond Til We Die. The conversation about the Apple TV plus show Ted lasso, where we explore the characters, their relationship to each other, and how they're able to make us laugh until we can hardly read the one moment and then feel with the deepest parts of our hearts next. I'm Christian. I'm a soccer and barbecue guy and I have a great idea for a new sport. Ice Soccer.

Brett   
I'm Brett and I am worried that my complete lack of hockey knowledge will help me today because we have with us a very special guest. He is the director of Applied Research at Cambrian college with expertise in research, Canadian history and hockey. He's also the author of the book Hockey 365 daily stories from the ice and the upcoming book Hockey 365: Second period, which drops September 29,

Christian  
as well as the team historian for the Sudbury wolves of the Ontario Hockey League. He is a sports journalist who covers the Los Angeles Kings and as byline is in The Athletic,  and Sports Illustrated. That's a lot of sports, sports, sports.

Brett   
I don't know what to call when a word turns into a sound.

Christian  
semantic satiation.

Brett   
Yeah,

Christian  
don't suck me into that.

Brett   
Okay, well, while I clear my head, listeners, please join us in giving a warm welcome to Mike Commito. 

Mike Commito  
Hey, thanks for having me.

Christian  
Welcome, Mike. And we are so glad that you are here to have this conversation with us today. I'm excited. I'm very excited. Thanks for having me on.

Brett   
For the listeners. We connected with Mike on Twitter when he shared with us that he was giving a presentation on leadership to some folks in his organization, and that he was planning to use Ted lasso as the main example for that. And so we're here to talk briefly with him today about his presentation. And then we'll ask him some other questions about leadership lessons he's learned from Ted laughs Oh, we'll talk a little bit about hockey and just talk about all the things we love. Alright, Christian isn't wearing any soccer gear today, but our guest Mike is wearing some sports apparel. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what you're wearing Mike?

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, so I'm wearing an Austin Matthews, Toronto Maple Leafs jersey. So Austin Matthews was drafted first overall by the Maple Leafs in 2016. There's a lot of anticipation about him coming into the league. And you know, I'm a diehard Maple Leafs fan. So I was fortunate enough that that particular year, the ping pong balls aligned for the Leafs and they got that first overall pick. They took Matthews and he's certainly lived up to his billing. He's one of the best goal scorers in the league right now. And for me, I ended up buying this jersey because it was not long after I became the director of applied research. We were in Toronto. I've never owned an authentic hockey jersey. I play hockey but all of us were you know knockoff counterfeit jerseys that we get for pennies on the dollar because I'm not going to wear a $300 Jersey you know for for purely hockey. So I said to my wife, you know what, got a promotion. I'm finally buying a real Maple Leafs jersey so I bought this awesome Matthews jersey. And again, it's it's one of those things where for me he was just a special player his debut for the Maple Leafs his first game in the NHL, he scored four goals which is a modern NHL record for a rookie in his first game. That also happened to be the first game that my daughter and I watched together. She was born a few weeks earlier. she of course didn't watch the game she was sleeping but she had her Maple Leafs pajamas on I was on the couch her just kind of watching this game my wife who's not a huge hockey fan but tolerates It was also kind of just caught up in the the art of the moment that you know Four bowls in any game is rare. But let alone in your first game. You know, as a rookie, I was pretty exceptional. So ever since then, you know, in the playoffs start next week, so I will certainly be wearing this jersey more frequently now.

Brett   
All right, Mike, first, why don't you tell the listeners a little bit more about what you do at Cambrian and for the Sudbury wolves Hockey Club, because that all sounds really interesting.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, so I'm the director of Applied Research and Innovation at Cambrian. And what we do in Applied Research is we help businesses access students, faculty in some of our state of the art equipment at the college to help them carry out applied research projects. So oftentimes, small and medium sized enterprises don't have the capacity or the resources to carry out any r&d work. So what they do in Canada is they'll work with colleges across the country, to help leverage government funding to support these projects, it's a great opportunity for students to get involved and work on real, real world challenges. And it's also a great way for these industry partners to leverage those dollars and kind of level up their business, we're able to take, I think, ideas that many of them have, they're probably on their, you know, five year outlook and bring it up to speed so they're closer to bring it to market. Yeah, I'm also the team historian for the summary, wolf. So I've been in that role since May of 2018. And it was, it was kind of a dream job, although it's obviously not my full time job, my full time job as I came around, but I think to have a business card that says team historian for any Hockey Club, is something that I've always wanted to get to. And so after, you know, I think kind of, you know, coaxing the wolves for several years, I was trying to get a, you're trying to write a book for the team. My with a, I was trying to do this with a colleague and friend of mine, Mark Kohlberg. And so we approached the team, kind of in advance of their 45th anniversary, which looking back now, it's not really a significant milestone, so we probably should have waited until the 15th, which is coming up in a couple of years. So after kind of going back and forth about whether or not the team would want to do a book, you know, seven years out, which you know, is kind of far for anyone to kind of commit to, we just kind of arrived that, you know, maybe instead of doing a book, let's start to write these, you know, more individualized hockey history pieces that can live on the websites, we could use them to market it to fans from, you know, older generations to try to connect new fans with the team. So they read through it, and they made me the team historian, and I think what's great about being a team historian, obviously, for any club is that, you know, you kind of get to celebrate the club's past and celebrate, you know, those those moments, you know, with fans from generations that go back to the 70s, when the club, you know, had some really successful seasons on the ice. So, you know, fans now who are kind of gravitating to the sport, and you know, in summary, they're going to games with their parents and grandparents, who went to games, you know, back in the day, in those previous errors. And so I think by celebrating the past, you obviously connect with that older generation of fans, but you also find a way to have to get the younger fans to connect, I think with some of the team's past and celebrate it that way. But I think, you know, as a historian with any team, I think one of your main obligations is just kind of engaging with alumni. Because obviously, they're a significant source for your your stories, obviously, you're doing your research, pulling old, you know, newspaper articles, and things like that to get coverage of what happened those seasons. But ultimately, it's the alumni and the former players and former team staff, who kind of really give you a window into the into the past. And so I think at the junior level, where you have players who are coming in for, you know, sometimes a year to three years at a time, and they move on and, and oftentimes they don't move on to NHL careers or professional hockey careers, they become, you know, firefighters, they become doctors, they become, you know, whatever they may be college administrators. So I think it's a great way to connect with them. Because, you know, I think there is a tendency to really focus on well, who graduated from our club and went on to have an NHL career? And it's like, yes, that's great. And obviously, that's, you know, you'd want to see them achieve the pinnacle of the sport, but they're still, you know, players who had such an impact on the community, not only on the ice, but just you know, with the people here, who don't go on to any show careers, but they still lead important lives, and they're worthy of celebration, too. So I think that's probably been one of the funnest things about being the team historian is not only telling those stories about players and events that everyone remembers, but reconnecting with players who, you know, did their two, three years in summary, and they went on and had a whole different life. And it's important to catch up and and find out what they're doing now.

Christian  
I'm sure you get to talk about hockey a lot work and it's kind of woven into the fabric of your community there. to Alaska. However, it's a new show people are still finding out about it. We just finished the first season and so there's still a lot of title. So to come. A lot of us are trying to figure out how do we incorporate Ted lasso into our workplace? How did you manage to give this table so centric presentation?

Unknown Speaker  
That's a great question. So I think my wife and I discovered it a little bit later into the pandemic. For whatever reason I had heard about it. We just never got started on it. And then one day, you know, I got us into it and never looked back. But I would say that the first time I watched the show, I hadn't really thought about how I was going to incorporate into work, you know, I've now watched it three times over. And I think it was in the second time, where I really started to zero in on some of the things that he was doing. You know, I did a quick Google search of just, you know, because I, in my mind, I had all of these ideas about the things that he was doing, made me want to be a better person made me want to be a better leader in my organization. And so I just kind of did a quick Google search to see if anybody else had been thinking along the same lines as me is that what kind of leadership lessons can we pull out of the show? Sure enough, there were quite a few, you know, responses online of people who I think it also kind of done a deep dive into what they saw on the show. And so at that point, I kind of felt, you know, we've obviously, I've obviously independently arrived, but I think there is something to take away from that. And so kind of taking what I saw from other folks, you know, some of my own thoughts, I started to think that, you know, maybe this would be a good way to kind of approach tackling, you know, leadership lessons, what we've been doing in my group, is that my vice president, Christine Morris, who's the director, sorry, the Vice President of international finance administration, I cambrin, you know, for for all of her directors that report to her, she's implemented a new monthly plan, where each director has to bring up a lesson in leadership to the rest of the team, we kind of discussed that, and see how we can kind of action that into our respective groups. And typically, I think the plan was for people to take, you know, something from a book they've read, or from an article they've read, you know, I've read enough of those books over the years that I thought, you know, I could certainly draw from something that I think would be interesting, but it was at that point that I realized maybe I should, you know, kind of go outside the box. And, you know, Ted last week kind of popped into my mind. And so I figured it was a bit of a risk, because it was a little unconventional, because everybody else, I think, for the most part now, you know, is gonna be drawing from books, which, which is great. But, you know, in for me, it was kind of it was a bit of a calculated risk, because I asked the group beforehand, you know, how many of you have watched Ted lasso as I was just kind of doing my, my, my background research, and, and only one person, I think of our seven had said he'd watched it. And so luckily, when I actually did the presentation, it turns out, there was actually a couple more people that had seen it, but I was essentially, you know, kind of doing a presentation about Ted lasso to, you know, to half the group who hadn't even seen the show yet. So, but But nevertheless, I think, regardless of whether you've seen it three times, like me, or if you've never even heard about it, you know, I think it paints a pretty easy picture of what's the type of person he is the type of people they have on the show. And some of the lessons we can take away.

Christian  
As you were giving the presentation, it's divided into different leadership characteristics that Ted Lascaux exhibits, did you try to retail scenes or redeliver lines from the film? Or were you mostly sticking to your points? And then just the still pictures that you had on your slides?

Unknown Speaker  
Yes, so for the most part I was I was trying to paint the picture, because I did know that you know, my boss, and then at least a couple other people had not seen the show. So I figured in order to at least, I think contextualize some of the examples I had, I kind of had to do a, you know, a bit of a deep dive. So and again, we're talking about one of the lessons I talked about was, you know, I think listening to everybody is something that Ted does really well, regardless of who it is, you know, he doesn't have, you know, a hierarchy of whose views or perspectives are more important. So I kind of, you know, rehash the scene where, you know, trend krim is falling around for that Expo, say that Rebecca thinks is going to lampoon him but there's that scene when, you know, Trent kind of bristles at the the idea that Ted's taking advice from from Nate, you know, the the equipment manager and, and, you know, he kind of says, Well, he's, he's, he's forgotten more about soccer than I'll ever know. And to me, that's, that's a great example of, it doesn't matter who you're getting the advice from, again, it to be, to have, I think that humility, as well to understand that, you know, you can find advice, or you can find expertise from anybody in your organization. And it's important not to, you know, to think of them in a certain way just because of the status or what their job title is that everybody has meaningful ideas that can contribute. So I did a lot of that where I kind of to paint that picture. The one scene that I did show them was the was the Dart scene. With Rupert again, I thought that that was a great example of rather than me trying to, you know, to kind of rehash them myself, I just figured it's, it's available on YouTube, they've kind of cut it down into four minutes by taking out the other cutaway scenes. And it's just, it's just a great scene, I think that I wanted to be able to give them at least one snippet of the show, I thought about leading off of the trailer, but I thought, you know what, maybe I'll just try to, you know, summarize the character as best as I can. And then at least show them that one scene, you know that because I think it does leave an impact as you watch it. And again, even as somebody who's who's watched the show many times now and has watched that scene countless times, you know, it still resonates each and every time.

Christian  
One thing that doesn't show up a ton in the presentation is Ted's relationship with Rebecca and I imagine it's tough to give a presentation and you don't want to give too many spoilers. you as a person who clearly has a very good boss, what did you learn from Ted lasso about dealing with a bad boss?

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, that's a great point. I again, I thought about putting that in the presentation. Because, you know, now that it's funny, I should say this too. So My boss at the time, Christine hadn't seen the show. After the presentation, I think I convinced her to, to renew her Apple plus subscription to at least watch the show. So she's now watched. And she says she loves it. So now, there's all these little things out of the present that I left out of the presentation that now she understand. So, you know, biscuits with the boss, I don't know, if we'll bring that back once we're back on a campus full time, but at least she'll get the reference now. So I'm already thinking ahead to that first in person one on one we have, I definitely have to go in with a little box of biscuits for her and see what she says because at least she'll get it now. But I think, you know, I'm fortunate enough to have a great boss who's supportive of me, you know, her and I, you know, even now through the pandemic, we're gone to virtual work, we have regular one on one meetings where, you know, it's an opportunity for her and I just have time to talk about what's going on in my my area, me to bring her some challenges or issues I'm having share some successes with her. And then she kind of downloads any information that I need to hear from the senior leadership group. So I think, you know, what I've noticed throughout the show with the relationship that Ted and Rebecca have, and that they kind of get to that point over time is just the open and honest dialogue that they have. And again, it admittedly, it takes Rebecca, I think a little bit to get to that point, because obviously, throughout most of the show, you know, she's kind of keeping a big secret from Tet as to why he's there. She eventually does, you know, open up towards the end and explained to him, you know, what were the the auspices that brought him there. But ultimately, I think that's one of the key lessons in the show as well, that, that being honest and transparent, and offering sincere apologies that that's the best way to go. Because ultimately, we see in that episode, and again, this is a spoiler, but I'm sure we've already, you know, covered the spoiler section that, you know, she forgives him, or he forgives her sorry, you know, for for what she does, because I think he sees that, you know, she is a good person that she's been struggling with this with this time of her life. And I think that's one of the hallmarks that you know, Christina and I have had or that I've had with the good bosses just as being open again, there's, there's some times where you don't want to share certain things with your boss, because obviously, it could put you in a vulnerable position, or it could reflect poorly on yourself or your team. But ultimately, you're not going to get out of a jam, or you're not going to be able to troubleshoot something if you're not open and upfront about everything that's going on. And and I think that has served me well in my career is that just having that open dialogue and being transparent, and you know, putting your cards on the table, just really allows you I think to get the full buy in from whoever your boss is, because they're, you know, they'll go into the trenches with you and try to solve the problem with you.

Christian  
You have a lot of organizational knowledge in academia in the sports world. One of the things that is maybe a little tough to adjust to in Ted Lascaux is him as a pro coach, having so much putting so much emphasis on the personal development of players and the idea of you know, is that realistic at the expense of team success? Which sports organizations? Have you seen that were most focused on the personal development of the players?

Unknown Speaker  
That's an interesting question. Because I think, you know, I right now, as a Maple Leafs fan I've seen I think some of the things and changes they've done to the organization over the last few years to better develop players. I think that, you know, it's a holistic approach with, you know, everything from, you know, Sports, Science, nutrition, I think also ensuring that the players are developing, you know, personally themselves that you know, that you're not just developing a player also developing a person. But I think, you know, if you were to look back in hockey, you know, I don't think that's necessarily a hallmark and it certainly wasn't, you know, 1020 years ago, I think that oftentimes, you know, player would get drafted. And sometimes, you know, there wasn't even often consideration about whether or not the moving them up to the to the big league was the best for their, for their professional developments. It was just that, you know, they think they're ready, they put them in the league, and then oftentimes, you see that the guys aren't ready. And then you know, the careers kind of don't go the way that many people forecasted because oftentimes, the players are rushed into the league, they weren't ready for the type of competition they face. And ultimately, that has a compounding impact on the right. Again, if you're getting like crushed night in and night out, either physically or just on the score sheet, you know, that takes a toll on you mentally. And you know, that leaves all sorts of confidence problems. But I think what we've seen, especially now more than NHL, but I think obviously, just because I kind of follow the Leafs more closely that the the investment they put into their players, and they're able to do this because they are a big market team, they have almost what appears to be infinite resources to do that stuff outside of the salary cap, but they're able to invest in those players. And again, I think that that is key because again, I think that's what you've seen in the show, as well as that obviously, he's doing this to try to develop the team to get the performance on the pitch. But he knows that as a coach, he has duties just beyond getting the best performance from his players he knows and I think takes pride in developing his people. And so I think that that's, you know, what, I think many coaches regardless of what sport you're in now, especially over the last several years as more of these developments take places that there is a duty and responsibility to kind of take care of these other areas. And I think that you know, teams like the Maple Leafs, I think recognize the sport is come a long way. And to really get the most out of your athletes you hide out, you kind of have to, you know, cover all of your bases.

Christian  
pretend we're in an alternate reality, Apple TV plus has a show with a coach named Ted lasso. But instead of going to England and coaching a soccer team, he goes to Canada to coach a hockey team. How would Ted have to adjust his leadership in that scenario?

Unknown Speaker  
It's a that's a funny question, because the cynic in me would say that the TED lasso show won't work for hockey because of how conservative the sport has been to outsiders, that there's a refrain in the game still, to this day, it's getting better, but it's still, you know, opinions. perceptions are not as valued if you didn't, quote unquote, play the game. And so for Ted, who obviously, you know, let's say it's, we're take the soccer club, and that he didn't play hockey, and he didn't coach hockey, there was no way that he'd be able to coach, a professional team. You know, in Canada, I think, obviously, certainly, there's, there's exceptions to that rule where maybe an owner is a little bit more open minded. But I think it's just kind of funny that, you know, if we were to look at it at an NHL level, or even a league below the NHL, that the way that hockey culture is kind of set up, but we still, they still place a premium on former athletes. And that's why you often see the same, you know, coaches and general managers occupying positions across the league. But I would say that, certainly, I think below the NHL, when you get more of the community based clubs, and I think even if you took like a junior level club, I think if you had an owner that was a little bit more innovative and open minded, you know, taking somebody who has an outside perspective, bringing them to the club, you know, would, I think could happen, but you know, what, I think for the most part, you probably he probably wouldn't have to change his approach, because I think, you know, he had success, you know, at the college level Division Two before he went over to Richmond. So I think he would do well developing younger athletes, right? Because I think that he takes a lot of pride and care and wanting to develop his athletes, not only as players but as people. And I think there's no greater responsibility in doing that when you're dealing with student athletes, or younger athletes. Right. So I think that if he was developing a junior club, like the servery, wolves, the team on the team historian for, I think, I think he'd be great. And I think even with younger clubs, I think the positivity, you know, is that he has infectious and I think with younger players, when you really just want them to stick with the sports, you know, think having those positive experiences and wanting them to play the game for the right reasons and getting the most out of the sport. Like that's so important at any age, but especially in that developmental period. So like, I think I would love to see, you know, an alternate universe where Ted lasso is the head coach of the Mighty Ducks team. And because I again, that's that's much one, there'll be much watch TV, I think, in my opinion,

Christian  
at the very least, it would be fun to watch him try to skate. So I'd pay money to see that. Yeah. You mentioned there's a difference between community clubs, like the one that you work for, and then their bigger clubs, the Toronto Maple leaves. When I was growing up on the west coast, like the LA kings, you know, these rappers in LA who had never played hockey and probably never watched a hockey game, you still see them like in Kings gear, and so there was something culturally that was bigger just about those brands. I think Richmond is a window into the Soccer World of what support for those community based soccer clubs can look like, or in Richmond's case like a neighborhood within London. What similarities Do you see at the community level between hockey teams, supporters and soccer team supporters?

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, I think at the community level is where you would see the most similarities. I think, obviously, when you look at a club, like the Toronto Maple Leafs who have you know, a national and even global following, you have pockets of leafs fans throughout the country. Obviously, in Toronto, you're gonna have a significant number of leafs fans, but it's it's it's a team where you have allegiances spread all over, you know, there's Canadians who are living in other parts of the world, and they may be Toronto fans, so you kind of have it spread out. But at the community level, I think, you know, it's definitely localized. And I think the support is that much more significant because I think the feeling that that is your team, it belongs to your community. And so when I look at the summary wolves, you know, it's it's a it's a junior team here in town, but the following they they have is incredibly loyal over the years. When they were in the playoffs, and they were you know, a contending team. The amount of people that would turn out to games. Was was was wild downtown was was a it was a every night downtown when they had a playoff game like you needed to be downtown needed to be a part of the buzz in the atmosphere whether or not you're in the building. You know, you could feel the electricity downtown. And to this day, one of the best live sporting experiences I've ever had is going to every wolves playoff game. And again, I've been to NHL games I've been to baseball or MLB games. So I've been out there Live sporting events, but it's still just that that experience of being in a very small rank, which again, at the, you know, a seating capacity of, of maybe 3500. And then was standing room, you know, it's 5000. And so on those nights, you had standing room only was packed like three rows deep. You could not get a ticket during this playoff run that I went through 2007 the wolves come out, they skate out to I remember this vividly, they're skating out to Marilyn Manson, the beautiful people, they've got this inflatable wolf head on the ice that they skate out through the howling comes on through the sound system. And you can the building is shaking, like you got your you have your hands on the railing in the standing room only. And you can feel the vibrations running through the railing across the building. And so it gives me goosebumps still thinking about it. But that's the kind of attitude that I think fans had is that no matter what, even in those years where that was a year, for example, where the wolves were a lower seed on paper, we knew that they were a much better team. And so I think we had the confidence that they could do well. And they went all the way to the League Championship final. But I think even regardless of how the team is doing, you, the fans have that diehard attitude that we're gonna go and support this team and you know, whether or not they're contender, we're gonna act like they're a contender and give them the support they need. So I think that if you look at Richmond, obviously with that community vibe, and how, you know, diehard and you know, you know, willing to go to bat for the team, they are, I think with local clubs, you know, when it comes to hockey, you definitely see that more because I think there is that feeling of, of community ownership, that this is your team that these are your players, they reside in your community. They're, they're a part of the fabric of the community. And I think that that, you know, with Junior hockey in Canada, I think you certainly get that appreciation, obviously, as you get up into professional leagues. You know, I think that detachment kind of goes away because they're no longer you know, necessarily community clubs. I think communities where that club resides, maybe feel that but I think it's just it's hard to, I think emulate that feeling you get at the local level that you just you simply can't get when you're talking about like an elite level, you know, Hockey Club,

Christian  
in addition to title so, skating. I now want there to be hockey to lassos so that I can hear Brett break down Marilyn Manson songs in our title so hockey podcast. Another comparing contrast with soccer and hockey. hockey players are known as being physical fighters. And in soccer, the fights are often pretty lame with a lot of flopping and not much action. Have you ever seen any good locker room bust ups, or scuffles, like we see with Jamie and Roy in total? So

Unknown Speaker  
I wish I wish I could say I've seen it firsthand. You know, I play hockey with with a pretty good amical group of guys where I think we all get along, there's been a couple moments that have been tense on the ice where I think someone has taken something more personally than it was intended. Or maybe somebody did something where they didn't mean to put somebody in a dangerous position. And they did and that obviously gets tempers flare, because you know, as most of us are in our 30s and up and no one wants to go into work with an injury as a result of, you know, barely hockey or you want to lose any teeth as a result of that. So I've seen tempers flare, it's never gotten to the point where, you know, we have to restrain anybody but but i think you know, going back just as, as as a hockey starting, I've seen some of these examples where obviously on the ice against opponents, or they square off quite frequently, but there's been examples of, you know, not even that far in the past where, you know, coaches have tried to attack other coaches. I think at the time when you know, john Tortorella was coaching the Vancouver Canucks and he tried to get into the flame the Calgary Flames dressing room after the game, you know, to have some choice words with the coach and maybe even more than that, but it's I think, certainly within hockey culture, it's a little bit more accepted although i think you know, as we're learning more and more about you know, the impact of of head trauma over the years especially compounding over a career, you know, fighting is obviously kind of lost its its its place in the game, I think it's still there. I think ultimately, you're never going to get rid of fighting in the in hockey because it's a physical sport. And anytime you have physicality, especially amongst, you know, high performance athletes who are often big and playing with incredible speed that you know, there's going to be situations where a hit leads to something else, and then tempers boil over and you know, maybe an altercation results from that. But I would say that there's one one example I wanted to share just because it's I came across it when I was doing the research for my next book that's coming out in the fall. And there was a game between you know, the Washington Capitals and the Blackhawks was a preseason game back in 2000. And this is before the Columbus Blue Jackets came into the league, and so the league wanted the capitals in the Blackhawks to play in Columbus, before the blue blue jackets are going to take the ice because they wanted to showcase the sports. And so the Blue Jays the capitals General Manager George McPhee, one of the Blackhawks to leave behind some some more. They're they're more goon type players. You didn't want it to turn into this. This physical you know grudge match game he wanted the display the skill for the fans of Columbia. Anyway, long story short, the Blackhawks don't get his memo they bring their more enforcer type players the game gets pretty ugly. The capitals still in but Nick fee is incensed by the fact that they still brought those players and you know even took some of his players out of out of the game. So he goes down to the Blackhawks dressing room to have a some choice words with the head coach of the Blackhawks and then of getting into an altercation McPhee ends up punching him in the face. He has to get pulled off of him by a player's security guards police. When he gets out of the scrum, you know, his one of his suit jacket arms has been ripped off. So in McAfee's effort to try to showcase the game and not you know, have this type of random hockey to the Columbus fancy ends up becoming probably the only coach in NHL history to be suspended for fighting. So he was suspended for a month, he was not allowed to, you know, join the capitals at all, he was not allowed to be at the practice facility, anything like that to kind of take a step back for a month, he was also fined. I think a hefty sum by by Commissioner Gary Bettman for that. But again, this is an example where, you know, that seems ridiculous. Now, I think looking back, you know, 21 years later, but at the time, you know, people probably didn't really bat an eye because you know, that was just accepted as part of hockey that fighting us has been kind of, you know, integrated into the fabric of the sport. And I think people just kind of that's, that's just that's what happens on the ice sometimes. Or in the dressing room.

Christian  
That's amazing. Say you are stuck in an elevator and you have 15 seconds with somebody, would you have an easier time explaining to them the offside rule in soccer, which confounds title, so the offside rule in hockey, or the icing rule in hockey?

Unknown Speaker  
I think the icing rule in hockey would be harder to explain. I think that, you know, offside is pretty similar across sports. But But icing in hockey. I don't know if you can get it out in 15 seconds. Because there's there's all sorts of iterations where you know, icing doesn't apply. You know, when you're killing a penalty, you're allowed to ice the puck. And then of course, there's hybridizing rules were at the international level, they play by, you know, different, different standards when it comes to icing icing has changed over the years in terms of how they call it. So I think even now just talking to you guys, I'm probably going over 15 seconds. So I'd be hard pressed to do it. I think you could maybe somebody more skillful than me could do it in 15 seconds. But I think you'd have a hard time getting a concise answer out of 15 seconds, by the time you hit your floor on the

Christian  
0% chance that the referee is able to explain icing to Ted made the game. Oh, yeah, zero No way. Good to know, you've done a lot of writing. And people can find that all over the internet. Recently, you had an amazing story about sharing hockey with your daughter and her getting the experience to play in an official capacity, which is really sweet. And I just encourage everybody to go find that story. We will link to it in our show notes. What kind of parenting lessons have you taken away from Ted last? Oh,

Unknown Speaker  
that's that's a good one too. Because I think you know, for me with the show, I let me just go back a little bit. Because you know, when I first started watching it, I'll admit that I'm like, I don't think this show is going to work like he almost seems too hokey. Like, I don't think I can buy this, like there's no way that this person could ever exist. But then as you watch the show, I think you want to so believe that a person like this would exist, and it actually becomes more plausible as the show goes on. Because I think you want to be as good of a person as as Ted, you know, appears to be in the show. And you want to have the type of impact on the people in your life the way that he does. And I think for me, you know, two of the things I think I've taken the most away from the show in terms of are when it comes to you know, my parenting styles with my my daughter's is that one I think that positivity is important, I think no matter what's going on in the household, regardless of whether or not I'm having a bad day at work or just a bad day in general that you know, you still have to be you know, I think that supportive, loving, caring, happy father so that, you know, it doesn't affect your kid's outlook that day. But I do think that the most important rule, I think, or lesson I've taken from the show is is to be a goldfish. I think as a parent, you absolutely have to be a goldfish otherwise, it's gonna it's gonna be hard to get through the day. I think if we dwelled on every tantrum or fit or, you know, remark that was taken the wrong way, you know, we wouldn't be able to move on right? So I think that sometimes, and this is something that my you know, my wife and I have been learning recently as our daughter is getting into a more she's, she turned, she'll be turning five in September. So she already has a very big personality is very set in her ways. And so, tantrums fits happen from time to time. But I think we've learned that you just kind of move on let her let it run its course we've actually been I've been reading a parenting book to try to like best navigate them. situations to try to mitigate a tantrum and how best not to, you know, Stoke it any further. But I think if you take the last away, being a goldfish is is key. Because once it's over, it's over. And let's move on and do something fun, and hope that it doesn't happen again that day. And if it does, it'll pass. And then, you know, just move on to the next thing.

Brett   
Well, Mike, thank you so much for being with us today. It has been wonderful to learn about your love for Ted lasso and the way it's affected the way you think about leadership and parenting and just how you live your life. That's one of the reasons we started the show was because we all just felt like we wanted to become more like Ted lasso in our lives. But before we go out today, one of the things about your book hockey, hockey 365, is that you choose a moment from hockey history each day of the year. And then there's a story for the folks and kind of pick up and read daily. On the day that we're publishing this June 1, what is the story that you chose to write about?

Unknown Speaker  
So the story I picked for that day, and I and again, this is I think I should note that, so this is the second book. So the first book contained 365, I always say 365, because that's the title. But there's 366, because I included February 29, for leap years. So when I did the second book, I had to pick 366 brand new stories, I didn't want to reuse anything from the previous book. So it had to be 366 new things. And so obviously, for June 1, I couldn't pick the same thing as before. It just so happened that I think there's enough moments in hockey history that you could probably do and you know, write many volumes of this book, which is which is great for me whether or not I'll do more than two, we'll see. But, but I think there's definitely enough source material there. So for June 1, for this edition of the book, I picked, it was game seven of the Western Conference final in 2014, between the Blackhawks and the kings. And so at this time, the the Blackhawks were the defending Stanley Cup champions, the Kings had won their first Stanley Cup in franchise history, just two years earlier in 2012. So these were like two of the biggest and best teams in the league at the time, they had a dominant run, obviously with each of them winning cups in the last couple of years. And so it had been a crazy series because actually to two games earlier in game five, they had like one of the most thrilling overtime periods in hockey history was it the game ended up ending in double overtime but in that first overtime period, I think there was a period where they had us on there was no stoppage in play for I think I want to say like eight minutes or so it was just end to end near misses and your chances no one found the back of the net like the players were standing up on the bench because you know, it seemed like the game could end at any moment. The you know a lot of the players and the coaches involved later it said that it was one of the you know, best overtime games you've ever seen. And of course they had a front row seat to that. So after that overtime game ends you know the Blackhawks stave off elimination, they go into game six they went again in force a pivotal game seven and you know for the Kings This is their third game seven of the playoffs they had gone in the first round series against the sharks, they were actually down Oh, and three, they came back and won four straight to become just the fourth team in NHL history to win a best of seven series after dropping the first three games so they're you know, they're That's an incredible feat in that first series, the second series they play their you know, crosstown rivals with the ducks. They go to seven games as well after squandering a lead there. Same with the Blackhawks, they had them on the ropes in game five, and then they ended up having to go to a game seven again. So by this point, the kings have obviously had their experience in game seven. And so it's it's it's one of those moments where obviously, regardless of you, you know, it could have been a Stanley Cup final matchup because they were they were just such great teams to watch. Ultimately, the Kings ended up defeating the Blackhawks and that game seven went on to defeat the Rangers and when you know, their second cup in three years, so I think for me now, especially as somebody who gets to contribute to the LA kings regularly, I wanted to include that story just because obviously, you know what leads to leads to another Stanley Cup. But certainly, I think, a very exciting series, one of the most exciting series I can remember watching in my lifetime, just again, the caliber of the teams was so high. And I think just the you know, the excitement of the games was was incredible.

Brett   
That sounds like an amazing series. I am not a hockey fan, but maybe I should become one. I mean, I'm from Texas, and the Dallas Stars were good once upon a time. I don't know if they're still good. I should maybe I'll find out if I start watching more NHL. But Mike, thank you so much for joining us today. It was wonderful to have you on the show. We already mentioned at once, but why don't you remind folks about your second book and when that's going to come out?

Unknown Speaker  
Sure. Yeah. No, thanks for having me, guys. I really appreciate it. It's always great when you can talk about Ted lasso. But, but the book is coming out in September, September 29 2021. So it's called hockey 365 the second period Read more daily stories from the ice. So it's 365 short hockey history stories, one for every day of the year. And you can buy that wherever you'd like to buy books. Again, if you'd like to buy books on Amazon, it's available now for pre order there otherwise you can collect connect with your independent bookseller probably closer to the date, see and get some copies for you. But yeah, it should be available everywhere come September.

Brett   
Great. And why don't you also remind the folks where they can find you on online on social media?

Mike Commito  
Yes, you can find I'm most active on on Twitter is I think the place where I share a lot of hockey history moments and share this, you know, some of the stories that I've written primarily are on Twitter, so you can find me at my Commito Yeah, I mean, I have Instagram, but not a lot going on there. But you can follow me there too. But Twitter is definitely the place to be, especially if you want to learn more about hockey. That's, that's, that's where you can find it, Brett.

Brett   
So that sounds awesome. Thanks again, Mike. Thanks for being on the show and take care. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Christian  
And that's our show greyhounds. We hope you enjoyed our discussion with the distinguished Dr. Mike Commito You can check out the show notes for links to Dr. Mike's writings, social media accounts and other cool stuff we mentioned in this episode. We'll be back on the dog track next week for our conversation about Ted lasso Episode Seven, but you can keep the conversation going on Twitter and Instagram. Our handle on both is at TED lasso pod.

Brett   
This episode of Richmond till we die is brought to you by Gin and Kerosene Productions. It was produced by me Brett and me, Christian. Me Brett also edited, mixed and composed the music for this episode. If you felt enlightened or had other positive feelings about this conversation, we humbly ask that you take a moment to give our show a five star review and subscribe to our feed. It's the best and easiest way you can show support for our show. Okay, I'm Brett, signing off for Christian and Dr. Mike Commito. Thanks for listening greyhounds. Until next time. Cheers, y'all.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai