Nov. 23, 2021

Ted Lasso S2E2: Like Tall Yodas


Welcome back to the Dogtrack, Greyhounds! In this episode Marisa, Christian, and Brett discuss Season 2, Episode 2: Lavender.

We chat about how it feels to see some of our favorite characters drifting out to sea, discuss the return of prodigal son Jamie Tartt, and touch on the overarching themes of vulnerability and fraught paternal relationships this season. We also take some time to think about Dr. Sharon's journey and how she'll grow throughout the season.

We get into the incredible visual FX efforts that went into making Soccer Saturday happen, and of course chat about the Sex Pistols, Queen, Cheers, and unearth even more Shakespeare references in this packed episode!

Discussed on this episode:

Richmond Til We Die is a conversation about the Apple TV+ show Ted Lasso, where we explore the characters, their relationships to each other, and how they're able to make us laugh until we can hardly breathe one moment and then feel with the deepest parts of our hearts the next. When you're here, you're a Greyhound!

Transcript

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Christian  
Welcome back to the dog track greyhounds This is Richmond till we die and episode by episode conversation about the Apple TV plus show Ted lasso. We explore the characters, their relationships to each other, and how they're able to make us laugh until we can hardly breathe one moment and deal with the deepest parts of our hearts the next. For this episode, our conversation is all about season two, episode two titled lavender. It was written by Leanne Bowen, directed by Declan Lowry, and edited by AJ kattiline.

Marisa  
Hey, y'all, I'm Marissa. And I just want to say that, you know, Christmas is a comin', and we have a cockapoo, and he's adorable. And I know that y'all are really great about  writing us and telling us what you think about these episodes. So just write in and tell my husband that our dog needs a dog for Christmas.

Christian  
I'm Christian. And I'd like to start today by apologizing to the good people of Iceland for incorrectly stating that the Danny Rojas character was originally going to be Dutch In our previous episode.

Brett   
And I'm Brett and I really do want to hear if scientists have found a low fat frozen yogurt that doesn't make you sad

Marisa  
if it's not ice cream, like how can it like?

Brett   
I don't know. i That's why we need the rest of the story. Marissa?

Marisa  
It's not true. Christian, tell me about your garb today.

Christian  
I've got a low key sneaky soccer shirt on today. It's old school. It is a green t shirt and it says Jim's Whale Watching Companywith a picture of a man in a stocking hat. And the reason I have this shirt on is because it's a Portland Timbers shirt. It's making subtle fun of their rivals, the Seattle Sounders and later in our episode, I get to say mean things about Seattle in context, and so I just decided that I would start early.

Marisa  
It looks as if it also has like a chant toward the bottom. It does.

Christian  
It says they're fat. They're round, they flop along the ground. And the picture is a timber Jim, who is a real life honest to god Lumberjack, who would come to timbers games and act they call him a mascot. I think mascot is a little bit disrespectful because it's not like he puts on a costume that isn't his he would actually like wear his lumberjacking stuff. And whenever the timbers would score a goal, he would slice a slab off the log, and then the goal scorer or the goalkeeper if they had a shutout that game would get the slab at the end of the game and hold it up for the crowd to cheer. Jim has since retired but remained a part of the Portland Timbers community and now timber Joey, only the second mascot in the history of the Portland Timbers, dating back to the 1970s has taken his place. So he's got a place in the hearts of timbers fans, and in Timbers/Seattle lore.

Marisa  
What exactly are fat round and flopping on the ground?

Christian  
With Seattle being on the Puget Sound and their soccer team being called the Sounders there were times where the Orca whale was kind of their mascot. And so the timbers would do fun things like talk about their going whale hunting, taking inflatable whales, putting them in coffins and marching them through timbers, pubs, stuff like that, just to you know, really rile up the rivals.

Marisa  
That's super messed up.

Brett   
It's nice when your clothing can throw shade before you even have to open your mouth

Christian  
. Yeah, and subtle shade. really subtle shade.

Brett   
Should we tell the people what happened in this episode?

Marisa  
Yes, let's do a recap.

Christian  
The episode starts with the Jamie tart getting unceremoniously booted from the hit reality TV show lust conquers all. Not only was his strategy of lavitorial intercourse a losing one, but it wasn't great for his reputation.

Marisa  
Jamie catches a second loss when he also gets unceremoniously kicked off of Manchester City. And suddenly he's a man without a club or much dignity for that matter.

Brett   
Following his very public humiliations, Jamie has nowhere to turn other than AFC Richmond. When the Keeley Jones security blanket strategy doesn't work, he turns to Ted and they have a heart to heart at the Crown and Anchor. It was quality conversation that ended with the understanding that the men would head in their separate directions.

Christian  
After Keeley is running with Jamie we're led to believe that he's lit some kind of fire in her. Once they both get over some embarrassment and talk it all out. Roy agrees to try out a punditry gig that Keeley thinks will be good for him as a media outsider, right absolutely crushes his debut with a barrage of profanity laden honesty.

Marisa  
When pictures of Ted and Jamie's meeting week online reactions are mixed beard Nate and every last AFC Richmond player are adamantly against the idea. Sam is especially upset because of how badly James treated him. So Ted shuts it down until he doesn't.

Brett   
The episode ends with Jamie tart bursting onto the training pitch as snow gently falls from the sky. Many Lux are exchanged so many Lux and that's all the recap. We are going to give you

Marisa  
so many looks were exchanged. It was like an episode of Downton Abbey.

Brett   
Yeah, they do a lot of looks on that show.

Marisa  
Yeah. Has everyone done their looks?

Brett   
Jeremy swift gets to do a lot of likes on that show. Yes.

Christian  
Our roving man about the office. Yeah, me swift aka Higgins.

Brett   
I love this bit of Higgins not having an office though. I do have to admit, I forgot that he briefly finds a home toward the end of this episode, but that is short lived shortlived. Oh, so brief. Yep. He we see him in Rebecca's office and she basically kicks him out. And then he's in the weight room later, but then he gets to go be roomies with Nate before ending

Christian  
up numerous other places throughout the season. In an adventure that we're excited about tracking.

Marisa  
I love this bit. Yes. I like to see Higgins moving about with you know, plants in box and everything like what like why not just leave the plant, you know? Doing pins? Yes. Filling pins. How many times did the pins build can't leave

Brett   
Jimmy Page and Robert Plant behind? Marissa?

Marisa  
Yes. Higgins doesn't get much of a story arc in this season. But the moments that we do get of Higgins they're just worth it and they bring such light and levity to some. Some might say a darker season.

Christian  
He's very efficient. Another man without a home, so to speak in this episode. The homie coach

Brett   
beard. Yeah. When the first scene after the title sequence, right, we see beard he's in like a white, like tank top shirt, and he's not a fan. I'm kind of messy.

Christian  
I'm all for men and tank tops that tank top seems fashionably to be caught in this sort of in between place. Like, let's go with the you know, tight tank top. Or let's go with something that is a little higher quality if we're gonna go with the loose tank top, but the straight up cheapo, loose, worst of all worlds.

Brett   
And then when Beard's giving Ted the rundown as to why he's getting dressed in their office, he explains that Jane has kicked him out throwing his keys in the river. And then Ted makes a comment about how Jane and beard are like Frank Sinatra and any one of Frank Sinatra has many love interests in his career.

Christian  
Frankie would not have done well in this age of paparazzi and social media, as we've talked about before, gay to lease was a reporter who tried to do a profile on Frank Sinatra. He did not want that profile done. So at least took two simply following him around. It's nice little deep cut that we get from Ted in season one. And one point we did write a blog post about all of this, tying Frank Sinatra to various people in the TED Lascaux universe that we will put in the show notes.

Brett   
That article originated as a Twitter thread from our account. And another great mention of Twitter happened in this episode when Ted tell Sam that Twitter is a wild place because someone made an account just for his mustache. And that is a true real life act.

Christian  
Yep, there's a Ted's mustache internet account, as well as Roy's socks and many other accessories facial or otherwise, for characters in the show.

Brett   
This is what you're missing out on. If you're not on Twitter.

Marisa  
Wow, you don't have to look at me, bro. I would subtweet you don't know what that means? Um, does Kelly's ponytail have a Twitter account?

Brett   
Good question.

Marisa  
If not, then I'm not interested in Twitter to the internet.

Christian  
This episode was very different a second time through than it was on first watch. I know that my wife Stacy did not care for this episode as we got to the end of it.

Marisa  
Apparently, I didn't like it the first time through either. But you know how quickly things change? Because on the second watch, I would say no, I felt like Ted last Oh,

Brett   
yes. After you've seen all season two, and you go back it, it all fits in in context. It's why context is so important. As the episodes are being released week by week, this one definitely felt like the cliffhanger at the end loomed way larger than it does when you can just go right to episode three.

Christian  
Yeah, and after a feel good, very familiar. Season two, episode one. We felt like there were some people kind of drifting out to sea in this episode. And they were, they were in positions and acting in ways that we weren't really used to, like the biggest one and most obvious would be Ted. Because we have a TED who doesn't know what to do with a lot of situations. He's finally totally like, unable to get through to somebody. And he strikes me as a guy throughout this episode, who is doing things that he doesn't want to do. But at the same time, he's wrestling with not wanting to break his reputation as being like the nice guy, and they get along with everybody, guy. And so, like you see in physical comedy, when he's talking to Higgins and trying to convince against the like, Yeah, you didn't need to consult me on this. But clearly, he's very bothered. And then you see later in the episode, too, when he's kind of like back and forth on whether or not Jamie is gonna come back to the team.

Brett   
Yeah. And even in his brief interactions with Dr. Sharon, in this episode, especially early in the episode you feel he you can tell when he gets sort of put off of his game that it really rattles him. He tries not to show it, but we knowing Ted from season one, you can definitely feel like there's something different about him as soon as those cookies get turned down. And she refuses to play his game of, you know, what's your favorite book and jumping in? And she's she's just not there to sort of cater to his like, sometimes kind of manic energy. And I think it really, yeah, like you said, it bothers him. He does shook, he does, he is shook, and he doesn't like that he can't just break through in the first five minutes.

Marisa  
Well, and I think to watching it a second time. And I see Ted barging in, I realize like how, like, in real life, Marissa, like, would be really annoyed by that. Especially by someone who like I don't I don't know. Like, I'm a very like, friendly, like, let's get to know each other person, you know, but like just barging into someone's office, especially someone who does private work. You know, like that. The second time that I watched this, I was like, Yeah, dude, that's a boundary, like, chill out. And, you know, as we watch it the first time we're automatically on Ted's team, right? Everything Ted does, we've like sort of taken that on and like everyone's on Ted's team. And so everything that he does that annoys her is like, oh, my gosh, why isn't she just automatically here for it already, when we've had an entire season to be here for it, right?

Brett   
It's like Cristian said In our previous episode, the way that she feels dropped in from a more real world place, and not cartoon land, really provides that foil of like, putting that putting Ted's behavior back into perspective that we've just, we got so used to in season one, and we love but yes, it was a definitely, I felt the same way. Kind of like, oh, yeah, it is a little bit like, oh, like, you're here, you're in her office, like she was just trying to like work and like now here you are with biscuits.

Marisa  
And the other thing is, like, it's not necessarily that she doesn't end up playing into his games a little bit. But you definitely see again, with with time and with finishing the season, she gets to play his game, she just needs time, you know, and even just, like at the end of this episode, she needed time to kind of get there. But the one thing that I still on on a second watch, like can't get over with Dr. fieldstone is the whole like, I don't eat sugar unforgiveable. Okay, like, again, sorry that I keep referencing my, you know, Christian has all these expertise, like areas of expertise, numerous. Christian has so many areas of expertise and just here I am just to talk about how beautiful and wonderful people are. But I do have the area of expertise of being Italian. And we like food. We like to eat. We like to center the things around like our lives with meal Unlike people who don't like food, like that is one thing. That's one thing that like, I just cannot understand. I don't understand you. Like, I will try to get to know someone and like understand all of the ways that we can be different and share different opinions. But if you don't like food, we're just we will never see eye to eye.

Christian  
Ted can be a lot. However, Dr. Fieldstone could have taken one bite, and then tucked the box away, and then sneakily dumped it in a public trash receptacle on her bike ride home. That does not seem unreasonable.

Marisa  
However, she's smart. And she knows that this is not a one time thing that like Ted is not someone who doesn't do something every day. She knows that this is not just like a hey, welcome. It's like I'm gonna be here every morning doing this right? Maybe she and Rebecca were like on an email chain already know, she I just think she like instinctively understood Ted. So she just had to be straight up with them, because she didn't want to be wasting all that buttery goodness, like all the time. Let's just mean

Christian  
being straight up with people can be good. Sometimes it can be a bit much as well, like, our man, Nate is being straight up, but something seems a bit off.

Brett   
Yeah. We stayed away from talking too much about Nate In our previous episode. But there were already some things going on with him that you noticed as a viewer. In the first episode, there's this brief interaction between Nate and we'll the kit man where he kind of hollers at him and corrects him and tells him how to do something. And beard kind of gives this look like bro, you're coming on too strong. And then in this episode, we see several more instances of Nate just kind of like you said, Something's not so he's not acting quite right he he gets really offended that will has tried to use lavender fabric softener. He gets really upset when Will has put pineapple into the sports drink, which sounds delicious. To me. Pineapple is my favorite. So please give me more pineapple flavored sports drink. And then there's the really ironic bit where he says something about when the coaches are considering whether they should bring Jamie back onto the team. He says it could ruin morale to have someone in here just belittling people all the time. And then literally as he's saying that he turns to will the caveman and says something belittling, so it's just how do you not see it, Nate?

Marisa  
Well, what's striking to me is like how Ted is not aware of it fully. And yet we have beard all throughout the season, picking up and giving looks as we've talked about before, giving looks to Nate like huller like, Are you paying attention to what just came out of your mouth? Like what's going on with you dude,

Christian  
As Madonna would say, he gives good face.

Marisa  
You know, in in Nate's defense, just a small word. Like lavender is one of those things that like people love or they hate. 

Christian  
I don't know that Nate is particularly defensible. There are two things from season one, however, that puts some of this into context for me. One is that and certainly it was more out of a place in a position of fear that Nate was really anal about how he did his job in season one. Yep, you see him shooing Ted off of the grass, the first time that Ted comes into the stadium, Nate is like very big into sports drinks and keeping the dog poo off. And there's an attention to detail. And I think it comes from his low self esteem. But that is how he went about doing his job. The other piece that puts it into context for me is that when Nate comes alive, as a person, and as a character in season one, it is because he hauls off on one of the most epic distracts that we have ever seen on TV, in that locker room in at Everton. And, you know, I just wonder if that isn't in some ways awakening, a beast, that it's tough to put back in the bottle. And so we have Nate here. And he's kind of a drift. And as you mentioned, like Ted's not picking up on it. And Ted, who's supposed to be in has been like this intuitive guy. He's kind of adrift in things are just not feeling steady.

Brett   
Yeah, these two things are related because Ted is distracted because he's so focused on that relationship with Dr. Sharon, that he he is just letting Nate slowly start to slip through these cracks by missing these little these little signals. And I think that it's telling it's not a throwaway line at all, but in the previous episode, after Nate has said something to will, that was belittling. He says you got to stay on pressure makes pearls and beard and Ted both are like That's not right. And he's like, oh, yeah, it's diamonds, isn't it? I messed it up. But there's something in there because pressure doesn't make diamonds. But pearls are, in fact made by debris or like contaminants like entering into a shell, and then the pearls form. So there's, there's something there metaphorically that we'll explore later. metaphor, hmm. Metaphor.

Christian  
And we mentioned it a little bit, but it is worth putting a fine point on it, that Beard is a bit adrift, too, because he and Ted aren't seeing each other, like they used to. Beard is having his normal like dysfunctional love life relationships, that's not normal. But that's an adrift mist that he always has. And then he does, there's this friction in the office between him and Nate. And Ted's not there to kind of, like, smooth that over and mediate it. So it's a good thing, they're going to have a therapist on staff for the whole year now, because I think they're gonna need it.

Marisa  
Not only do they need it, but clearly in one of, you know, my favorite moments in this episode, because it felt real to have Ted and Rebecca have a moment together, where she shares my like, despise for people who don't like to eat food. But they talk about, like, why they don't need counseling. And it's like, that's what our friends are for, like, burdening them with our problems and our issues. And then it's like, these two people who, like, they definitely have their issues that they need to talk about. It's like, do you have anything you want to say? No, I'm good. How are you know, I'm good at it's just like, you know, tongue in cheek, like the hilarious the irony here that we have with these people who both need to be talking about so many things going on in their lives.

Brett   
They didn't even avail themselves of the opportunity to unburden themselves to one another.

Christian  
Yeah, I mean, they're remarkably self aware in the moment, they just run away from the opportunity when it Well, every opportunity, like they run away from the opportunity to, you know, talk to each other. And then they also run away from the opportunity to talk to a therapist too. So really, like what they're running away from is the opportunity to be vulnerable with each other, which does become then a big theme for this episode. And for the season, like at what point are people going to be vulnerable with each other, for the good of themselves, and then like for the good of their relationships, and the team and really everything everyone needs more vulnerability?

Brett   
Yeah, Kelly and Roy, lead us headfirst into this conversation when they're having this conversation about whether we should try the pundit gig because he's come in he's found Keeley having some personal time and she says that she's turned on by the fact that he was being vulnerable and passionate and that she likes to see that within him and that she thinks that if he returns to being around the game that that side of him will kind of resurface.

Marisa  
Also talking about headfirst into things. I don't want to steal your thunder Christian because I know you're all about like what's really soccer believable and whatnot. But I do have to say we we've gained a little bit of headway here in our expertise of the game. As we watched our our oldest daughter play like club soccer this last year, which has been really fun. One of the things that made me laugh really hard is when Roy comes back from the game and he's like, they're not allowed to do headers. Our daughter is nine walking brain development, right? Okay, Brett and I said that line so many times watching all these games, because we did because these girls, you know, aren't allowed to like do headers and in fact they like blow the whistle and it's like a penalty basically, it's so what's really funny is like watching these girls, duck and dodge, so it's like half soccer, like half dodgeball, like don't hit me in the head, don't me, I don't want to get in trouble.

Christian  
I don't want to like, you know, hurt myself too much patting myself on the back. However, there was a point in season one during the episode where Ted and Trent and Roy went to Phoebe's school and the kids were practicing hitters where my least believable soccer bit was the fact that kids pretty much are supposed to do hitters at this point. And there are a lot of leagues where they're not.

Marisa  
I remember that Christian I'm proud of you and we got to see it firsthand. And especially just like the abject fear of these girls like beautiful Bray even care about that they care more about like the embarrassment of the whistle that follows you know,

Christian  
that moment does highlight however Roy's frustration. There's like he's relaxed and he's chill. But there is kind of a discontentment there like there is something below the surface that is wanting more because while it's meaningful for him to coach Phoebe's team and it is good for him to like chill and I think have a break from what it is a healing, like there's some self discovery that can go in there and trying to find a life away from football, he probably doesn't have enough purpose to keep him satisfied like, long term in life.

Brett   
Yeah. And he's been staying around the game, but in sort of the most low risk and safe way, like he's coaching an under nine soccer team, you know, which is not unimportant, but it is it is a way for him to just stay around soccer with like flying really, really under the radar. Whereas like this pundit gig would be the opposite. He would be on TV multiple times a week.

Christian  
Yeah, like you can't fail with a you nine kind of recreational team. Correct. Whereas if he was coaching, if he was around the game at a higher level, he would miss it. Like, there may be that fear of feeling like oh my gosh, like I can't be doing what I really want to do. So maybe if I just create a wall, I'll forget about it. And if you're on that big stage, then you're on that big stage if you mess up.

Brett   
Yeah, and Keeley really hits the nail on the head when she you know, sort of sarcastically says can't get hurt if you don't try, but there's definitely some truth in that coming for her in that conversation. Because that's true for all of us. Like when there's something that we that we want or that we're missing out on, or, you know, these desires that we have, like so often we paralyze ourselves with fear about like, what will happen if I fail, or if I'm not like the best, or like, what happens if people think that I'm shooting or whatever. And so that's, you know, she's in this pep talk. There's a lot of there's a lot of truth there even though they're also sort of having a little bit of a, a tiff in a way. Another person

Christian  
who's going on this journey of vulnerability is our friend Jamie, like when he shows up on the scene. That man is being peak, Jamie I think well, I mean to me like a really endearing hilarious way. But he does get broken and he has to try to find himself and admit to other people that he needs them

Marisa  
seeing Jamie at the beginning of this episode, just that whole bit of him in the reality TV world and the morning show world you know, felt very real but so like not Ted Lasell world you know, and then seeing him being just kind of being taken down a peg or 17 from his agents was really sad because you know, it just sets up the whole thing that we've been talking about ever since you know, season one about everyone and their daddy issues and then his agent literally says you're like a son to me but like a dead son so it's like you know, I care about you even more. It's just like you really do start start to see Jamie like soften and realize like, like the things that he's done like maybe there's no coming back from like his own mistakes but like where's the one place that he feels safe? You know, at first you see him try to run away more he's like well, I can just go play somewhere else like Spain, Germany like once you weren't even speaking in Spanish the parts funny on the phone and then you know, he starts to try to run away again and then realizes like maybe I need to stay and like figure things out and where's the place? He feels the most safe like obviously we see him go to Keeley and then to Ted right and so I think that even though we see that as like a not great move and like Ted even his first instinct is Yeah, I don't think that's that's a good option for for all of us together. But Jamie is clearly remorseful and really wants to I think like prove himself and to see someone who's like ready to be humble like especially like think about like peak Jamie and season one where we absolutely hated him like as we're watching as we're watching is like, is there anything redeemable about this person? Like he is pretty much awful like right and then like then we see him now and we're like all Jamie's like working to fix life. You know, like we're on his side.

Brett   
He's still quite a bit vapid and boneheaded in this episode, I think that's what we get we get the peak Jamie without kind of like the de bagginess. Really like he it's, it's all of the other things that we love and or also love about Jamie,

Christian  
but got a desire to be a better guy. Right skill set is very much lacking. Okay,

Brett   
he there's a learning curve, but I love the symbolism of him returning to the bar, and the first thing we see in his interaction with Ted is placing the green army man back onto the bar that Ted gave him at the very end of season one. And in that moment, if you'll recall, Jamie had just had a very harrowing interaction with his own father in real life. You know, his his dad had been verbally abusing him in the locker room after the final match of the season. And that gesture from Ted, I think it wraps up a lot of these, these issues that Jamie has his own dad and how he looks at TED as maybe sort of like a surrogate father figure in a way. And even though he tries to play it off, and he's like, I named my army man Ted Danson. Not Ted laughs so it's, it's a sweet moment. And I'm really glad that that's sort of how their their reuniting party starts.

Christian  
Yeah, it wasn't a sweet moment. There's also the sweet moment of it being the second episode in a row where we get a cheers reference. And Episode One, when Ted walks into Rebecca's office, everybody gives him the TED the norm, ask Ted. And then in this episode, we get some more Ted Danson actions. So they continue to just pay tribute and give honor to those routes in Jason's life and then also in you know, comedy that I guess means something.

Brett   
Yeah. I also love that one of the reasons when Jamie is on the morning show, which is, in fact, a real morning show. Yes, those are the real hosts. It's called this morning, and Philip Schofield and Holly Willoughby are the hosts. So that's a cool gift for them for cameos. But that he says that he does all this, because he just found out that George Harrison died and he needed to like start living life or whatever. And then he walks out on the street with these very George Harrison esque sunglasses, which you pointed out Christian I hadn't even noticed. But then I Googled it. And I was like, oh, yeah, totally like, I don't know how I didn't put two and two together before but it's a pretty great homage there.

Christian  
We talk a lot about people that should be seeing a therapist, but there is a vulnerability journey that Dr. Sharon is going on here too, as well. And we see her make some movement in that it was telling at the end of the episode, when she allows or gives Ted I guess permission to call her doc instead of doctor in. To me, that's a sign that like she realizes that it's an affectionate nickname. That's not based in disrespect, right? There are a lot of times where both women and people of color when they end up in these white male dominated spaces, like you have to fight for every single inch. And so if someone were to call you, Doc, or sweetie or deer or babe, that is bring you down a notch, even if they're saying like, Oh, well, it's you know, it's an affectionate nickname. Like, I would give like, I would call somebody, dude or whatever. That's not how it comes across. That's not how those words have historically, like been used in those situations. And so, yeah, like it can be off putting, that's how Ted can be a lot like when you first meet him. But there's a point where she's kind of able to, I think, see his heart. And she's able to then say, okay, like it's okay for us to have a little bit like closer relationship than I thought was possible when I first came into contact with you.

Brett   
Yeah, and I think what you said underlines. Another thing that I noticed is just like how different it is when Dr. Sharon first enters Rebecca's office versus how she enters Ted and beards office. She comes in and, you know, Rebecca immediately stands up and she's like, Oh, thank you. No, it's so nice to meet you. Thank you for being here. Dr. fieldstone. And she she says, Call me Sharon. And I think part of it is kind of what you're talking about. Like she there's this understanding there just between two women one being white one being black, but the way that, you know, Rebecca greets her like uses her full honorific, but at the same time, there's already this understanding of like, oh, just call me Sharon. Like I'm, she's showing a little bit of like, she is actually somewhat chill. Like, she's not a total like, stick in the mud. But she she has to have these boundaries around Ted, because she's not quite sure what to expect, you know, from a from a white dude in this position.

Marisa  
Well, and Rebecca is really technically her superior to so you know, the way that she would treat her would be different than, say Ted where they're somewhat more like, you know, would be equals in this in this area. Yeah.

Brett   
The other. There's the other great thing in that scene is that we find out that Rebecca has sent her a gift basket of water bottles, which is a thing I've never heard of.

Marisa  
 Something that I was like a vocalist would actually really appreciate it.

Brett   
More water bottle gift baskets, please but

Marisa  
like the fact that like Keeley is so upset about it. She's like, there's so many other things that don't have sugar. Like why the crap? Like Kiwis like I couldn't make a list right now. Like, that's sweet.

Christian  
Well that's why Keeley is very good at her job.

Brett   
Yeah, this is true. I do You also want to just draw our attention to. In that moment, you're referencing Christian where Sharon allows for Ted to call her Doc, that she also gives into his request for what's your favorite book. And she allows him to learn that information as well, she shares the after giving him a big stiff arm, in the first conversation about that, she says it's Prince of Tides, which I was not familiar with, but is a really, really dark novel that's set in the American South. And it is definitely about all of the American masculinity and problems with dads and children and all the things but it also interestingly, features a relationship between an ex American football coach and a therapist. So there's a little bit there's a little bit in there to that I'm not quite sure what to make of it all. You can go on read it and read all the deep cuts there. But it's a fitting reference for her I think, especially after we get to know her more.

Christian  
In addition to read it, you could also read the book,

Brett   
you could read a book. That it I believe that Ted might have been familiar with this book, at least somewhat, because we find out on this episode. He's a very big Jimmy Buffett fan. And there's a Jimmy Buffett song called Prince of Tides, which in fact, tells the story of the book, and in fact, has Jimmy Buffett reading lines from the novel so that I think it's one of the things that ultimately helped shape his decision about whether or not to bring Jamie back.

Christian  
The reason that he gives for bringing Jamie back is along the lines of the fact that, you know, he's had a rough go at it. And everybody needs kind of that data that father figure in their lives. And it's worth just us paying attention and making a note, anytime a dad is mentioned, because up until this point, dads were a big theme in season one. However, they were largely invisible dads, we know that Roy when he went to Summerlin at age nine, was dropped off by his grandfather, and then didn't seem to have much of a relationship with his parents after that. So his he was essentially raised by coaches and that Academy system, Jamie, you know, had talked a little bit about his relationship with his dad. And then we see some of that in the last episode. And Ted is wrestling in season one with with his role as dad that he's not really able to fulfill, in some ways, maybe not choosing to fulfill as much as he might want to deep down in his heart. And then we know that like there's something going on with his father as well, because he shares a couple of times about experiences that they have had. And so these people who very rarely, I guess we don't even see Jamie's dad's face we see maybe like his hand or something, who don't really like show up on screen as characters, they loom very large in the background. And that's something that continues then into this episode as well.

Marisa  
Yeah, they, they, they were definitely shaping those characters in season one. And then now in season two, they're actually becoming real characters that you know, we get to meet or we get to interact with, in some on some level. And even those positive father figures, you know, still shaped who you are. So you know, you have Sam's dad who he has a he has what we see as like a healthy relationship with his family. We have Higgins and him being a strong father figure to all of his sons and you know, giving them the wisdom of whatever Luke and Leia how to still wonder what he told them. But yeah, getting to see how that plays out. And getting to see that we you know, we also will find out more about Rebecca and her dad.

Brett   
And I think what what you're both saying is right, like even with even with Sam's dad who didn't know very much like the the breadcrumbs are there for us to follow from the first season where like, he's clearly homesick because he has this good relationship with his family. Like he's not trying to escape from them. He in fact, is, you know, longing to be with them as he's celebrating his 20th birthday. And so it's, it's really interesting that this theme, just all of a sudden comes on so strong. There was even a little bit in episode one. But if you didn't get it by then they made it clear by Episode Two that like, we're gonna talk about dads.

Marisa  
Yeah, yeah. We were talking about how like, you know, Sam, that Ted kind of uses the reason of Jamie's relationship with his dad as a reason to bring them back into the fold. Right. And almost kind of like, not blame Sam for that. But almost gives credit to Sam as saying, like, you know, after talking with him, I realized this. And I was just thinking, it's like, you know, we all come from very Christian spiritual backgrounds, right. And this idea of like the prodigal sons sort of coming home You know, we often think about, we often see the relationship or think about the relationship of the one who left squandered. Everything is coming back, right? And how they're like brought back in, or the the loving benevolent father who, you know, just welcomes them back in without, you know anything like, you know, any, any way that they have to sort of pay their way back in. But most of the time, like we are the the other brother, right? That's like, why like, why the crap? Did they get to like, just come back. And if there are any people out there who you know, celebrate who they are as an Enneagram number. I'm a one. And so as a one, it's really difficult to watch Jamie coming back. And like I feel for Sam and I understand Sam and I'm like, you're just gonna let this like little jerk come back and like, like, Why is he here and he hasn't done anything to like earn his position back here. He broke all the rules, he did everything wrong. And yet, you're just like letting him come back. And so for me, that was really hard to watch the first time. And then as I watched it the second time, I was like, Yeah, Jamie, like, let's do this, let's change our lives, let's be a better person.

Christian  
See, when I watched it the second time, I had a problem with Ted, like this is Ted being out to sea to me because it's difficult to sort of they, they use so few words, in the last minute or so of this episode that it's difficult to pin down really like who knew what was going on. I feel like one or both of Higgins and Rebecca knew that Jamie was coming back. Like that just makes sense to me. And from a business standpoint and running a team standpoint, and then their reactions. It kind of feels like probably nobody else knew except Ted, there's an interesting look that we get from Sam that I can't tell if it is pensive, or knowing but beard is kind of like what's going on. And Nate is kind of like what's going on. And it really, in a lot of ways feels like after holding the vote of like, Should we bring this guy back or no, then kind of makes this executive decision and frames it as being something that he learned from Sam, when Sam wasn't trying to teach him that. And I'm not convinced that he said, Sam, you taught me this unintentionally. So I'm making this decision. So I don't really know what is happening.

Marisa  
I struggled with that a lot. The first time we watched it, I was like really, really upset with Ted. And I felt like as as because I love Sam and I just loved that character so much. And like Sam is just so honest about why he's upset, you know? And we know, we've never seen sort of that irrational behavior from him before, you know. Yeah. And, and I was like, I really felt betrayed by Ted, like for Sam, you know? And then I thought about it more. And then I was thinking because especially when you're left as a cliffhanger, and you have to wait a week, right? It felt like, oh my gosh, did he talk to anyone? Does anyone know what's going on? Like, what happened? What happened? What happened? But then the next episode happens. And clearly, it wasn't as big of a deal as like, it feels like in that big gap of a week of waiting for it. Because then it's like, well, there is a problem of like getting used to Jamie being back. But clearly it's not as like, Sam hates Ted and like their relationship is like irrevocable, you know, it's getting back to where it should be. So I don't know. It felt to me less stressful watching it, knowing that it wasn't going to get worse in the following episode.

Brett   
I will say just on Ted's behalf that when they're having the conversation between the Diamond Dogs about when he reopens the conversation, he says something like, oh, Sam just reminded me that he has a great dad and Jamie doesn't and someone asks Ted like, oh, Sam wants him to come back and Ted's like, oh, no, no, no. So he at least at least names it in like Sam as Sam does not want him to come back. But I as Ted I'm saying that I think that this is maybe what's best, they do sort of vote against him and he goes against that but at least at least the other coaches know that it was this was not Sam's idea.

Marisa  
I also think it's interesting beard votes like against it right? Yep, yep. Okay, because beard is the one and we have May in the bar who's always like, winning is okay to like sometimes what you need to do is like get the team to win and like that is okay, it's okay to want to do that and it's okay to for the betterment of these young men and like who they are like you don't always have to just that's the only goal right? So I find it interesting that beard votes no. When I feel like Ted's like finally with the word from Sharon about like, his are eight draws like okay with you like for real? cuz that like what we really want to do here it's like Ted finally like owns like crap I need to like stop being results and I we've got to win and like two aces is where it's at

Unknown Speaker  


Brett   
So I want to return to that moment where Jamie bursts onto the pitch and the falling snow. And what would seem like a tranquil moment with the beautiful snow is actually really intense and that intensity is ratcheted up by the song that is playing when he comes on to the pitch and that is tear it up by Queen, which is a bop absolutely goes that guitar lick slaps. And to use the snow metaphor, we start kind of a queen snowball for this season. We're continuing to Queens snowball because in both of the trailers for season two, their queen music was featured we had under pressure and one of them and we will rock you and the other one, and there's going to be more throughout the season. So just keep your eye on the Queen love. And one other really cool thing that I liked about the use of this song here is that on Freddie Mercury's last tour with Queen the magic tour in 1986. When they would play tear it up they would actually start the song with the guitar riff from another queen song called liar. And I think that's exactly what Sam was thinking when he looked at 10 in this moment.

Christian  
Queen is the official band of Ted Lasso so basically, that's not the only insurance Music in this episode. Yeah, right. It's like it's a lock upside does. Hey, baby. What is that one?

Brett   
Anarchy in the UK by the Sex Pistols. This is probably one of the most well known Sex Pistols song I think a lot of people have heard this. If you played Tony Hawk Pro Skater for you heard it a lot.

Christian  
Or if you're in a soccer world, I asked you what the song was already knew what the song was. And the reason is because it does show up on football grounds around England, Manchester United fans, supporters, they sing it as kind of a protest song against their owners, the Glazers, who they don't particularly love. Wrexham United supporters, they sing a version of this song in support of their team. So it's a funny coincidence because we're gonna hear more from Wrexham later in this season and in real life. And there is a version of this that I am aware of the Timbers Army, Portland Timbers supporters saying that contains the following lyrics. I am a timbers fan. I am Oregonian. I know what I want, and I know how to get it. I want to destroy Shital scum because I want to be Rose City. And yes, folks, the fine people of Portland do oftentimes referred to the city of Seattle as Shittle. And that shows up occasionally, and songs that are do Sex Pistols tunes.

Brett   
I'm starting to think that this timber sounders rivalry might even be better than a Red Sox-Yankees rivalry.

Marisa  
Hey.

Brett   
I've never heard people singing a Sex Pistols song a Yankees game

Marisa  
because they're too busy yelling the F-bomb.

Brett   
And saying What have you done for me lately?

Christian  
There's no no love lost in either rivalry.

Brett   
Another great thing you'll appreciate this Marissa? This song is playing when Roy is getting ready to go to his first appearance in his pundit gig. He's just called Keeley and kind of talked about like how nervous he is and what if everyone thinks I'm sure and she reminds him that he is in fact, Roy Kent, and he does not give a shit about what people think about him. And there is a great quote that I found from the frontman Johnny Rotten when they were preparing for one of their tours where he says we're the Sex Pistols. Nobody likes us and we don't care and if there is anything that is Roy Kent, it is that and I am so happy that Keeley reminded him of that even though his eyelashes got a little bit of a dip. From the makeup folks on the show,

Marisa  
she's the back up.

Christian  
Nikki Austin would never

Brett   
never

Christian  
We get some more Queen who we have heard before in this series, we get some more Sex Pistols who we've heard before in this series and we get some more Shakespeare.

Marisa  
Well, you know, we talked a lot about Shakespeare in the last episode, there are so many little nuggets in there. We get a quote here from beard early on, talking about how he slept in the locker room. And this comes from just sleep perchance to dream is one of the many often quoted lines in Hamlet's To be or not to be soliloquy in Act Three scene one of Hamlet, which is, you know, the soliloquy is all about kind of this logical expression of Hamlet's thinking on the subject of death, which I don't think like beard is there, but just using a moment to just show how brilliant he is.

Brett   
I mean, death does become a another big theme of the season. We started it with killing a dog. So it's true. There's a through maybe beard is thinking about death a lot these days. Before we totally leave the pop culture realm here. I just want to say there's a total throwaway line that Ted says when he's talking to Roy after he has written the lawnmower and it was good for his sciatica and his butt and all that. And Roy peels out of the parking lot, as we would say, and he says, oh, yeah, mine was money. And I just love that that's a little homage to Billy Crystal's mime character in This Is Spinal Tap, which is a great film that you should watch. And speaking of other things we should watch. There's been a lot of soccer on lately in real life. Yes. But in TED, last Oh world. There were also lots of soccer things. And not only soccer on the pitch, but soccer in the studio. So tell us about some of the soccer things in this episode.

Christian  
Most convincing is the Soccer Saturday show. That is a real show at Sky Sports has been going on for a long time. And Jeff Stelling, the hosts that we meet in Ted last on soccer Saturday. He's been on that show since 1994. He just recently in the last month, retired. And so he was like a long standing fixture there. And it's an important show because TV is a little bit different in England than it is in the United States. You can't watch all of the games, no matter how much money you pay, like you can in the US. And so any game that's played at 2pm on Saturdays, which is most of the games gets blacked out in the UK in England, because they want people to actually go to the matches, and not sit at home and watch TV because there's a big match going on in abandon their own clubs. And so you have this show that goes it can go up to six hours on Saturdays a soccer Saturday show where you'll have these pundits sitting there talking about games that they are watching, that the people who are watching TV can't see. And they'll sometimes like go out to reporters who are at the grounds to get updates and goal updates and to get an idea of what's going on. But it's kind of like an audio highlight show, I guess, that you're watching if you're at home, and you want to keep track of all the matches and they do a good job of keeping people up to date on lower league matches, so they don't just focus on the Premier League. They'll talk about the championship in Ligue one. It's a it's a very inclusive, all encompassing, iconic show, and Jeff Stelling has been a big part of that.

Brett   
I think it's really cool that they actually do talk about and discuss the the lower divisions, I kind of thought that maybe the Ted Lasso crew was kind of squeezing that in because they needed to, for se Richmond, but it's nice to know that that's, that's more reflective of real life than I would have assumed.

Christian  
Yeah, and it was a big lift for them to pull this off. This was filmed during the height of COVID. And SkySports had a lot of COVID precautions in place to the point where I'm pretty sure I heard the VFX people say that there were like plexiglass, like windows and shields between each of the people who were like sitting on the stage, and they essentially had CGI those out. And I don't think they I think they also said they weren't able to have their own camera people in there. They just had like the they had cameras that were set up but you couldn't bring a lot of people in and out. And so it was really tough for the editors because they were getting like chunks of of uncut footage that they were having to like go through hours and hours and hours because there was no director there to ever say like cut, alright, like reset it and to give them smaller chunks so they really like kind of move Heaven on Earth to give us this authentic soccer experience for these scenes in the show

Brett   
and when they CGI out the Plexiglas they were able to CGI in Brett Goldstein right? Allegedly, allegedly, we'll never know for sure. We'll never know for sure. Well, what were some of the less convincing soccer things then

Christian  
To me, it was terribly unconvincing how Jamie came back and that he was able to come back so quietly, there was a lot of consternation amongst headline fans during the offseason about realistic ways that they could bring Jamie back to AFC Richmond, like, maybe he gets an injury, or like maybe something happens. And he goes back on loan to AFC Richmond, because they could never afford to pay him. And what they give us is, you know, something nobody ever thought of which is he gets kicked off of a reality TV show. He gets booted from his team. And then he's able to kind of like sneak into the back door of the club without hardly anybody noticing. And that's like, never happening for any number of reasons. And in fact, when Jamie asked like, well, maybe I could go to Germany or Spain, he probably would have ended up in Germany or Spain or somewhere else, like he's talented enough that he wasn't going to be banished from football for being dumb on TV. Brett, did you have a favorite quote from this episode?

Brett   
I did. And I'm going with the obvious sappy quote. And it is when Ted is talking to the other coaches about whether or not to bring Jamie back. And he says, Isn't the idea of Never give up? Something we always talk about in sports? And shouldn't that apply to people too, as a drift as Ted was, and is in this episode, that is a quote that feels very classic Ted lasso and something that is very true to his values and the way that he views working with players. And so it was nice to have that little nugget amidst all of his confusion and consternation when it comes to this decision that he has to make.

Christian  
Yeah, he's not fully sinking. He's just adrift.

Brett   
No, yeah. And it was nice to have this little reminder, it was almost like a mini locker room talk. What about you, Krishna? Which one did you like?

Christian  
I meant to try to fold some of these quotes into the episode, like during our discussions, because there were so many and that I wanted to say, because there was so many I wanted to talk about, and I'm realizing now that I failed miserably at that. So I'll just note for the historical record that Jamie does have an amazing Star Wars quote that old people are so wise, they're like tall Yodas. It's a difficult one to pick up on first blush, if you're not like, super familiar with his accent, like you kind of have to like go back and figure out what he said. But it is hilarious. And then the other one that I will bring up is when when Roy's coaching and he's given the box of trophies. The first one he picks up is for Best Dressed and he says, "Best dressed. That's stupid. You're all wearing the same thing." And what really seals this one for me is there's one girl who's got like her shirt kind of like tied up with a scrunchie and she's got some like orange jewelry matching the team shirt. And I think she's done like a little extra with her hair. And she just looks like so offended. Her mom, right really thinks that they all look the same. And one of the other girls Roy gave the trophy to does realize that she's super offended and gives her that trophy and then she has the happiest look on her face. 

Brett   
Oh I never noticed that she does give it to the girl who looked disappointed. Like she just lost the Miss America Pageant, but I didn't know that the other girl gave it to her. There's redemption. That's so sweet. What about you, Marissa? What quote as you like from this episode?

Marisa  
Well, like when Ted asked Jamie, how's it going when they're in the pub together? And he says, Oh, awesome. Best. Pretty good. Okay, a little depressed. Yeah. It's all sorted. And then, of course answers with another great quote. So I'm picking two. It's that was a real roller coaster there that I was tall enough to join you on that ride really speaks to me as someone who was always too short to ride all the rides. So there you go.

All right, everyone. That is our show. And we'll be back next week with one of my favorite interviews we've done so far with a cast member you do not want to miss it. And in two weeks with episode three. If you'd like to dive even deeper into the themes of this episode, you can find even more Ted lasso content in our show notes. You'll find the link to our extensive notes in the episode description. You can also keep the conversation going on Twitter and Instagram. Our handle on both is at TED lasso pod. It's a great way for us to connect with each other and for y'all to share your insights on the show.

Brett   
This episode of Richmond Til We Die is brought to you by Gin and Kerosine Productions. It was produced by me Brett, Marissa and me, Christian. If you enjoyed this conversation, please take a moment to subscribe to Richmond Til We Die on whatever app you you're using to listen to this episode.

Christian  
If you have access to an Apple device, we would love it if you'd head over to Apple podcasts app and give us a quick five star review. It'll have more people find and hear the show. And if you'd like to support the show further, you can join us over on Patreon patrons get access to monthly giveaway drawings as well as exclusive podcast episodes and essays. I'm Christian signing off for Brett and Marissa. Thanks for listening. Until next time, cheers y'all. 

Nightcourt.