Ted Lasso S2E5: You Had Me at Coach

Christian  
Welcome back to the dog track greyhounds. This is Richmond Til We Die, an episode by episode conversation about the Apple TV plus show Ted Lasso, where we explore the characters, their relationships to each other and how they're able to make us laugh until we can hardly breathe one moment and feel with the deepest parts of our hearts the next. For this episode our conversation is all about season two, Episode Five titled rainbow. It was written by Bill Wrubel, directed by Erica Dunn and edited by Melissa McCoy.

I'm Christian and Aladdin Cafe in Kansas City right down the street from KU Med makes the best kebabs hummus and rosewater lemonade I have ever had. Period.

Marisa  
Nice rosewater lemonade. That sounds delicious. And also like one of the bath bombs that I got for Brett for Christmas. Hey, oh, I'm Marissa and I would say I am the first rom communist of this podcast.

Brett   
And I'm Brett and because of my children's musical listening habits I have my job now is driving the magical Encanto sing along bus to school every morning

Marisa  
Christian you're not here with us in the room but we can see you are you wearing something fabulous for us.

Christian  
I'm wearing something comfortable for you today. It is perhaps I think it's my oldest Portland Timbers zip up hoodie. It says Rose City across the front in big block letters and the "O" is an actual rose. So it's beautiful. And I'm wearing this one today because I'm not with you. Because for the last couple of weeks every five to seven days someone in my house has tested positive with COVID. So we are doing the remote recording so  that I do not stricken you all with our plague

Marisa  
I'm glad your family is fighting through it and remaining somewhat healthy.

Christian  
It is not a bad COVID experience fortunately, because we are all vaccinated, and now there are an abundance of tests it is largely an annoying COVID experience. But we will continue for the greater good to not breathe our nastiness on other people.

Brett   
Well even though you can't be here in the room with me and Marisa, would you like to tell the people what happened in this episode?

Christian  
Well, I'll start out but then I'm going to need your guys's help. As a unit AFC Richmond are in a titanic tailspin and their captain Isaac is helming the ship of despair while reviewing game film. Ted doesn't opt for a pep talk so much as he simply calls it as it is explaining to the team that they are in the midst of a dark forest that they must now make their way through like so many couples in love triangles have before them.

Marisa  
Wanting to impress his dad, Nate attempts unsuccessfully to get a window table reservation for dinner with his parents at their favorite restaurant. The Heartbreak Kid visits Keeley for advice who tag teams with Rebecca to help Nate build the confidence he needs to get what he wants.

Brett   
While he's having a hard time getting the team to snap out of their funk,Ted isn't clueless as to who can help. He ambushes Roy mid-kabob at the shop around the corner, proposing that he joined the coaching staff. Roy shuts him down but does agree to help Isaac out.

Christian  
Roy realizes the awful truth that Isaac isn't having fun playing the game he loves. So he takes Isaac to a proper kick about in an effort to get his head right. It takes him a minute. Before you know it. He finds his heart for the game and is having the time of his life.

Marisa  
Roy realizes he  desperately misses the game of football itself and in an effort to Unbreak his own heart. He walks out the door and out of Jeff Stelling's  life or at least his studio.

Brett   
Roy makes it to Nelson Road Stadium just in time to be Ted's plus one on the coaching staff. The crowd eats it up. Roy soaks it in, Beard finds himself breathless and Nate's not convinced they can all live happily ever after. And that's all the recap we're gonna give you I don't know about y'all, but this episode has so much in it. There's so many things.

Marisa  
I really think that this might be my favorite episode there are other like pieces of other episodes that I just like absolutely love but like as a as a unit as a thing all by its little self. It's just chock full of so much fun. And again if you can catch all the all the allusions to like fun, little romantic comedy things throughout, it's it's really exciting.

Christian  
One might say that it is fraught into overflowing, so much so that we could not contain all of our enthusiasm for this episode into one of our episodes. So we did invite Gwenda Bond a number of months back to come on the show. And she schooled us in ROM Communism and shared in the joy that you all have for rom coms. And that was a lot of fun. And then we also invited pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber to join us in a future episode to talk about some of the religious spiritual elements of the series that really kind of get cranked up here. So if you're looking for even more of the rom communism, make sure you go check out our episode with Gwenda. And if you are looking for more of the religious spiritual stuff, know that we have a whole episode on that coming as well.

Brett   
I was wondering what y'all thought about the owl joke that finally got brought back and resolved in this episode.

Christian  
Whom are you talking to?

Marisa  
Isn't that just like the writers though, to care so deeply about their fans to like, make sure that we come full circle, and we get to bring it back. Like, they worked so hard with the whole, like Sheffield Wednesday thing, and that whole joke and like, oh, and they're the owls. And then up here we go. We're setting this up. And we're just bringing it back for all those people who needed us to bring it back. So I just think what a lovely group of writers and editors and they just care about us so much.

Christian  
They're also very emotionally mature, because I would have been very angry at myself if I had accidentally like left that out in the editing process last time, and then I would have been super eager to reprove myself. So I probably would have written that joke and like in the first two minutes of season two, but they showed great patients and then they even like set it up with the extra Sheffield Wednesday bit. And it was it was masterful in a nice surprise that we hoped was coming.

Brett   
Yeah, I really enjoyed that payoff. And there were a couple of other fun references in this episode too. We had the AFC Wrexham bit with where Higgins and Rebecca are talking when they're discussing payroll, which is really funny.

Christian  
It's super funny because of how it then turned into a whole big thing in real life. It was a nice little Ted section. If you remember in this episode, Higgins tells Rebecca that he received a call from Rob McElhaney and Ryan Reynolds, who are comedians and he quips that he hasn't responded to them yet because he can't tell if them buying Wrexham United is a joke or not. And in fact, in real life, they are part owners of AFC Wrexham. So McElhaney and Reynolds, they sent a mock cease and desist letter to Tebow so and Apple TV plus and I'm going to read it because it's glorious. "It has come to our attention that in a recent episode of Ted Lasso our very real ownership of Wrexham AFC was called into question by an otherwise beloved character named Higgins. We hold the incomparable Jeremy swift in no ill regard and are honored to be mentioned on the platform that's brought us high quality programming ranging from mythic quest season one to mythic quest season two, we must insist that you cease and desist from the casting of any doubt regarding our commitment to the club, the fans and the entire Wrexham community". And then to avoid legal action, Apple TV joked that their team of 2000 lawyers was furiously baking as they speak. And they sent 50 boxes of biscuits to Wrexham AFC. And so it was a nice little spill over into real life and funny people making funny jokes. It was great. 

Marisa  
That's the TED world that we get to live in, in, you know, on the internet. And that's it. That's a safe and happy place. Most of the time.

Christian  
It's fun to because Wrexham is a very, very, very, very, very a plucky underdog if you ever want a football team to root for. They were founded in the mid 1800s, and they are the oldest club in Wales and the third oldest professional football association in the world. And we will like this. Their Club's home pitch, which is called the racecourse ground is the world's oldest international stadium that still hosts international matches. So the club has been owned by the fan since 2011. But these guys own it are part owners as well. And so they're trying to kind of bring it back from the fifth division of the English football pyramid to something more glorious.

Brett   
And speaking of ownership and money and sponsorship and social media. Richmond has a new sponsor, they have a new kit sponsor Hey, oh, it's a dating app. Spoiler alert it is Bantr.

Marisa  
Which it sounds like a really good option for like a dating app though. And like Keely's really just like doing her job super well. And you know, she's just smart. She knows how to how to handle this branding stuff.

Christian  
Fans with a keener eye than myself and I don't know about you guys. You can claim not noticing this if you want to. But in one of the previews for this season, there was a flash of Bantr as a sponsor. And so I think if people were like really paying attention maybe they could have started to put some pieces together that's something was happening with Air Dubai, but I did not pay attention to the sponsorships that closely so

Marisa  
spoilers are no spoilers, but Rebecca is on banter and other dating apps right now.

Christian  
Yeah. funny little tidbit about dating apps Bantr isn't the only dating app that appears in this episode. There's also the app Tumescent, which means pompous or pretentious, but a secondary meaning of that word is also swollen or becoming swollen, especially as a response to sexual arousal. So there are a couple jokes that you might find stick out a bit more.

Marisa  
You know what's really funny? I think I learned that word by watching a rom com when I was younger 10 Things I Hate About You. So it's Allison Janey's character. She's like the assistant principal or whatever, Mrs. Perky and she's like, every time you flashed her in this movie, she's always like writing some like novel. And she starts to say like undulating with desire, Adrian removes and she's like, at the side of reginal stiff and What's another word for an gorged assistants like oh, look it up. Then cat who was played by Julia Stiles walks in and she says tumescent, perfect. So anyways, as a young, you know, high schooler or whatever it was, I was like, what does that word mean? And that, of course, I, I learned it on two things I hate about you. So there you go.

Brett   
By the time that this episode rolled around, there was a little bit of like a critical question mark around the show, because we had had the first three episodes that were meant to be released together that ended up being released weekly. And so that kind of broke up that trilogy that we were meant to experience all at once. And then we had just come off the Christmas episode. And of course, for folks who just aren't into super schmaltzy Christmas time vibes, like that was not their favorite episode, it felt really smart of the writers to kind of acknowledge, like, hey, this may be something that like after coming back from season one to Season Two and kind of experiencing even just the first three episodes, you know, you may you may be feeling some type of way, but hey, don't worry, like this is this is the dark forest, you know, we have to go through some stuff and like, have some resolutions. And so I just I thought that was really smart writing.

Marisa  
Yeah, and I think too, that, you know, Ted could be taken to be like, almost following toxic positivity, where you just kind of believe the best is always gonna happen. And we know that that's not really great for mental health. And so just kind of like, you know, positivity is good. And it's good to like, sort of think good things and, and desire to be like a positive part of a group, especially when you're a leader. But I think to ignore anything that like negative that's happening, you know, can can start to cause problems, even when it's well intentioned, and we know that Tedis, and so we kind of see that possible possibility that it could just be toxic positivity, when especially when Sharon comes in, and she's like, Hey, what's going on with Isaac? He's like, Wait, Isaac's good. We'll figure it out. We got it. And you know, until we see that he has a plan or he's going to develop a plan for Isaac, we think, Wow, Ted are you just kind of ignoring all these negative things in front of you? But yeah, I do appreciate the dark forest because there is some acknowledgement of you got to like go through the funk to get get to your happy ending, right.

Christian  
There were a couple of times in this season, where I thought the writers that a remarkable job of anticipating where people who are watching the show might have issues and then addressing those things. Some of them are cleaned up at the end. This is one that was kind of a preemptive shot to try to warn people and Jason started this work. Before the season was released. He did an interview in the Kansas City Star where he said, "If we remember an Empire Strikes Back, which is deeply rooted in Joseph Campbell's hero's journey. It's literally when Luke studies with his Jedi Master, this little Greenwise man who giggles a lot for reasons unbeknownst to this Jedi in training, Luke has to go into this cave and face some demons. And much like the game of soccer, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and a lot of times you tie. And so he was literally saying, like, there's gonna be a forest, there's gonna be a cave, get ready for the forest, get ready for the cave, get ready for the dark." He's saying that in the press. And then the character of Ted lasso comes and says it here as a preparation of the abyss that we are careening into.

Marisa  
So clearly Isaac is going through some things, we could just see him being frustrated on the field and off the field as the team is trying to discuss, you know what's happening. And you know, what is making them maybe not gel as a team and Ted's trying to talk them through some things, and Isaac clearly doesn't get it. And he's like, dude, the problem is we're playing like shit. And yeah, Ted's talk  just kind of went right over his head, but we can clearly see there's something going on with him emotionally. Share it, we see Sharon notice it, we see the team notice it, we see the coaches notice it, and at first we think oh, is Ted just gonna excuse it, right, that positivity aspect. But later, we get to see I think one of the best moments and one of the things that I think goes back to one of our very first talks about Ted lasso and how important mentorship is and we get to see Ted sort of at his best setting people up in the right places. To to be aces, right? You got to have your aces in places and so I really enjoyed that and also during that conversation in the team room as they're watching tape Do they still call that even though it's not taped? Or they say like game film or match film? Okay. Is when they start to list you know, Rom Com royalty, which I do love this part set me off a little bit right so they have I know that we couldn't go down like a really really long like list of things but the director's cut, I feel like we miss some important people so they of course talk about Tom Hanks, you grant Matthew McConaughey and then these lovely women Meg Ryan Julia Roberts, Drew Barrymore, the three Kate's, which I find really funny. Beckinsale Hudson and Winslet Renee Zellweger and then Danny coming in for the late score with J Lo. stoppage time goal which I think we should have just had like a repeat of you know, the three Kate's we should have had the three Jennifer's with JLo Jennifer Garner Jennifer Aniston and then here's a here's mine like that. I'm like, I was deeply offended that Sandra Bullock did not get her dues. Yeah, come on. Like she's one of the best. Like I was very upset and others that I think should have gotten, you know, listed in that Reese Witherspoon. Where was she? And Hathaway. Amy Adams. Rachel McAdams. Sarah Jessica Parker. Let's go even like a generation before that. And just like give some older women their props. What about Diane Keaton? Yes. How about Billy Crystal? How many references do we have to When Harry Met Sally? Richard Gere. Steve Martin just because they're silver foxes. Come on now. What about the two Ryan's Ryan Reynolds got some you know, some play with the AFC Wrexham but what about Ryan Gosling? You know, I just I just had some questions.

Christian  
As someone who's not as well versed in rom coms. One thing I do appreciate about them is even rom coms with sequels. Each episode, each movie does, like wrap things up and finishes things up. And so when Ted says it's all gonna work out, like we know, in our minds that that is true with rom coms. One little hint that they do give us is that Isaac kind of goes into and is in his dark forest, but his mental block does get wrapped up in this episode. And so we get a little microcosm, and some tidying up what rom communism in this idea of dark forest can look like to hopefully help us get through whatever darkness we will encounter after this point.

Marisa  
And we're led to believe I mean, we do we see some wrapping up to with Roy right sort of setting him back on this track of like, his destiny. And we're almost led to believe that that might happen with Nate right? We see some frustration, but then we see this growth later on in the episode. And so, you know, until the very last scene, we think, oh, you know, Nate's Nate's coming back around like something's something good is like, in store for him.

Christian  
I mean, it's a brom-com - a bromance comedy - because Roy has always loved Isaac since the First season, there were times where he would really notice things about Isaac's leadership qualities and Isaac's potential, I guess. And he is the one that wanted Isaac to be captain. And so for their relationship to them, I guess have a moment in this episode was a cool thing to see and a nice payoff for a lot of work that have been done in season one.

Brett   
Yeah. And I like that Roy was willing to go to bat for Isaac, you know, on this broadcast when he's on soccer Saturday, they're talking about like, man, Isaac McAdoo, he's struggling, right and Roy's like, he's a good lad. You know, he's gonna He's gonna figure this stuff out. Then it's, it's later in the episode, when you see is like, having this joy in the game because of what Roy because of how Roy kind of led him along. That, you know, that brings Roy around to to a big realization, or a big epiphany moment, which is very rom com me, right. And so you know, if you're a good mentor, I think you're always kind of like learning new things and making new realizations about yourself, based on the people that you're that you're coaching, or you're teaching,

Marisa  
Speaking about good mentorship. This is where we see Ted is at his best, really pouring into Roy, who helps will pour into Isaac, because he even sets this up when they're deciding how to deal with Isaac, you know, he says, he's a big dog, and he needs a big dog to talk to him. And so Ted even recognizes that in himself that this isn't my place to help Isaac, I think he's going through something that he needs someone who's been in these very same shoes, boots, cleats, whatever you want to say. And I think he realizes how how this will also affect Roy and hopefully, bring him back to the field. Because the other thing is we see Ted sort of pining after, you know, this relationship with Roy all season like, will he come back? You know, I keep saving him a ticket under all of these beautiful American country star names. And you know, he hasn't come back. And so I think 10 really desires that relationship too. So

Christian  
something that stood out to me when I watched this recently that didn't hit me the first couple of times is the kebab guy asks if their father and son, I think the reason to me is because was reaction was really funny. And then they say no, like, you know, we were player coach, or whatever. And kebab guy says, Oh, well, that's the same thing. And he was recognizing something there about their relationship that I probably would have put some distance from like, oh, Ted's not trying to be, you know, Jamie's dad says, not trying to be Roy's dad, but like, maybe there is in his mentorship of them, kind of that draw that could come from the fact that like, he's not parenting his own son super, like, physically, presently, right now. And he asked to, like, find something to do with all of that, that energy, maybe it comes, you know, from his relationship with his own dad, maybe it's just like, all these guys with the relationships with their dads that have been imperfect, in whatever way are kind of just trying to find each other. But I did think it was cool and interesting. How come Bob guy really put his finger on that point?

Brett   
Yeah. And he really continues to stoke that conversation, because then he sort of launches into this whole monologue about how it's the same with him. And his dad, and his dad really wanted him to be a doctor, I'm talking about the kebab fella. And you know, he, I would have been a good doctor, but it's not what I was meant to do. And so in doing what he was meant to do, he ends up disappointing his father in a way but then you have to assume that because he's doing what he loves, and he's successful, we don't get to hear the end of that story. But maybe you know, that maybe his father has come around and is indeed, like, proud of him for doing that.

Marisa  
Well, I mean, obviously, it sparked something inside of Roy like to be like, am I supposed to learn some lesson here? Every time I hang out with Ted, I have to learn a lesson. He's not so excited about this mustachioed surprise, you know,

Christian  
it's easy to think about the deficiencies of dads and we're meant to think about that and focus on that. One of the ways that we've talked about in the past, that Roy was parents was that he was parented by the game. And there is positive in that, like it did give him an identity it gave him a space to be and it gave him camaraderie and relationships that he would not have had otherwise. And we get to see a different way kind of in which he was parented by the game as he has this moment of vulnerability with Isaac to say, like, you know, when things weren't good, up there and that flat, this is where I came, like I came down into this space to play to this cage to play. And this is where I found love and it was a love of the game and it was identity but the way that he I was able to share that with Isaac and then with Ted to an extent also was a pretty cool thing and kind of shows the flip side of some of the things that can positively imperfectly fill that data hole when dads aren't there.

Brett   
I really was struck by the line that Roy says where he's taught, he's pointing out his old, flat, or whatever. And he says, you know, that's where I grew up. And then he points to the field. And he says, this is where I lived. And there was just something there about, for me that clicked on this most recent viewing where, you know, Roy had to sort of like seek out a place to live like to thrive and to find himself, like, you know, you can grow up somewhere. And we don't know a lot about Roy's specific backstory. But to me, that was just like, that was a very meaningful moment of where he like, he comes to Isaac. And he says, like, you know, this is, this is where I found meaning, you know, this is where I found my identity. And, you know, he's, he's sort of struggling through like, what that means when he has to change that part of his identity. But he knows that for Isaac right now. Like, he needs to remember what it is about this sport that like, that helps make him who he is.

Marisa  
And that's a really big thing for Roy the character to share, not just as home, but really like him his own secret, because he's kept it for so long, we assume because it sounds like he came back here when he needed to as a player. And so for him to share his secret. Yeah, with not just Isaac, but Ted, you know, is really this, like opening up and exciting thing to see. And then I just love that scene. Before, you know, Ted and Isaac get to Roy. And they're just kind of like talking about how angry he really is, as a person was just really funny. But as a game, and it's supposed to be fun. And we win. You know, it made me think of like the very first interaction that Keeley has with Roy, back in season one, where she's like, you know, teasing him and doing the impression of him. So I get paid to play a game and I'm mad all the time. Right? And so it's like, yes, we need to remember that this is just a game and you need to like enjoy what it is that you do.

Christian  
There is a basketball, an American basketball analogue to this and that is Rucker Park in New York City. And I guess like playground basketball all over the country. But that's the most famous place. It's a place. It's in Harlem. It's a place that like Wilt Chamberlain would go and play Dr. J would go and play. And like NBA players famous players would go and they would play against street ballers. So one of the most famous street ballers that would play there was his name was Richard Pee Wee Kirkland. He was not only a street basketball player, but also a drug kingpin. And he would like pull up at Rucker in his Rolls Royce. And then like, get out and play and school all these guys. But you know, in modern basketball, it's also a place where guys have kind of gone to, to re-find, like the love of the game and the swagger in the offseason. So like there's an epic day that afternoon that Kevin Durant went there and dropped 66 points like Allen Iverson played there. LeBrons played there, there was a day after Kobe won his third championship, that he went and just like totally showed out and got the nickname, The Lord of the Rings while he was there. And so this idea that like, you got to go and like go get gritty and go, prove yourself and have some fun, like, yeah, like only the love can make you a player. And sometimes you have to find that love in a way where you're not getting the adulation that you get as a pro athlete under the gleaming lights,

Brett   
And for anything like that, you know, whether it's performing athletics, you know, whatever it is, whenever you have to give so much of yourself to something like you do, you really do have to love it. And you have to continue to find ways to tap into that emotion until that that affinity for what you do, or else, you know, really, really dangerous things can happen to you as far as your meaning and kind of what you how you think about yourself. And I think we see this partially playing out with Nate's and in his relationship with his dad. We don't, we'll get more later. But for now, you know, we clearly see that his dad is a little bit of a grump that Nate clearly is trying very hard to impress him by getting this window table at taste of Athens and tuning. And you're keen to sing, and no matter. You know, it's like, no matter what he does, he is not going to win with this man. And even I feel like it's reinforced with the way that Nate's mom acts in that moment to where the three of them show up and they're actually going to have dinner, you know, and Nate's dad says some sort of like, you know, stop bothering the young lady and remember or get off my lawn. And Nate's mom is like, Oh, stop, Lloyd. you know, like, clearly this is a way that this is his normal like demeanor. Right. And so you can see, the Nate is, is just struggling under the weight of like the countenance of his father, I don't really know how else to put it. But like clearly, like that, we can already start to notice some pretty deep seated issues here,

Marisa  
we see Nate struggling from the beginning of the episode one with a stupid whistle, like inside with the team, and then, like when we talked about Ted saying, Isaac needs a big dog. And Nate doesn't recognize that he is not a big dog in volunteering for the job, and instead actually laughs at him. You know, that's like, that would hurt anybody you know. But clearly, he doesn't see himself in reality at all. It's either he sees himself as too small or too big. And he can't really find like the, the the Goldilocks, right? The best way to view himself.

Brett   
Yeah, you bring up some good ones. I wouldn't call these almost like microaggressions. They're not racial. But you know, the way that Nate is sort of, like, treated in some of these moments, like our function in similar ways, like the way that Ted just like, implies that he's not a big dawg, you know, Nate, Nate's thinking like, Hey, I'm an assistant coach, like I am a big dog. I do think it's interesting that he volunteers to talk to Isaac, who his own who used to bully him, but that's, I'll just leave that there for y'all. But yeah, the hostess is really weird, has really weird energy with him all the time. And that's like, I always find that first seen so awkward, you know, that the espresso machine even and Kelly's not trying to be rude, but you know, he comes by and he's like, Oh, espresso machine. And she's like, No, no, that's not for you. You know, and like, he's clearly like, a little bit hurt by that. Like, why don't I get one and then again, it's not people like trying to do these things. But like Isaac to like, he has all these handshakes with everyone, right? And then he does something with 10 He does something with beer, then he kind of walks up to Nate and does like, and then just like, runs away, right? And so he

Marisa  
like, Go, he does, like he messes with his tie, like playfully, right? And you know, Nate can't handle that. Like someone like being in his business and trying to make him look like he's not in charge. And like he has it together.

Brett   
So there's just, I guess, like, what, what I picked up on watching this episode through this lens of like, Why? Why is they acting like such a jerk? Like, why is he Why is he so like, grumpy at the end of this episode, when you really zero in on these things? Like, there's a lot in this one episode, if you could, like, if you were to cut out all of Nate's parts, it's all like fun rom com references and like Roy finding himself and all this stuff. But in the midst of all of that, like, there's a lot of like Nate getting kicked in the crotch.

Marisa  
But see this, this is where in the first watch I thought, Oh, we're going to turn a corner here because one, clearly Nate is in the dark forest or struggling through something like that. And we get a very common rom com trope of a makeover, right? Yes, we have Keeley and Rebecca coming to his aid. Two of the most powerful people in this show. And Keely, who's always been kind and has always seen Nate and Rebecca, who hasn't, but has clearly come, you know, full circle and invites him in, calls him by his first name, like knows who he is now, you know, they, they try to teach him how to be assertive, and not only get what he wants, but get what he deserves. And so you do see some of these areas where Nate's getting kind of picked on or maybe made to feel less than, but you have these two women who spent clearly like a whole afternoon, coaching them on how to just get a table at a restaurant. I think he's kind of a baby, and he's not willing to see all the places where he is made to feel important and part of the group. And he's only seeing the negative, which I know we all do really well. But yeah, like, and even there's moments where with Ted where he, he circles back to him before the game is like, Hey, man, your suit like looking good. So even when Ted may not be around for every mentoring moment, you know, he still he still believes like, oh, Nate and I were good. You know, there are three

Christian  
instances that show me the complexity of Nate and the depth of his heart. One is when he's in Keely's office and the way that he holds that pillow, which to me looks a lot like the talking pillow that you want to grow into home. Yes, when they're gonna share their feelings and whatnot. Maybe it is the same pillow. But the way he kind of crushes it shows just a tremendous insecurity. And then when he does go upstairs and he's getting coached, the way that he blows up at cutely when she gets his name wrong, shows just how like deep and fiery the anger and the rage that he is holding down at And then when he's in the bathroom, and I don't like this scene will probably always be hard for me to watch. But when he spits in the mirror, oh, and you think about, just like qualitatively what Rebecca is trying to get him to do, which Rebecca fills herself with air and makes herself bigger and gives her self confidence to go in and engage a difficult situation. And they can't do that, like he tries to do, he can't do it. And what he ends up doing is the opposite. He like empties himself. And not only does he like empty himself when he spits. But then like downloading of covering himself up in the mirror, like can't even really see himself, and then he leaves and to think about just like the mindset that you would have to be in to, like, purposefully spit. And this isn't just like pandemic, me speaking like, this is a pretty gross thing to just spit on a mirror, and then like, leave that for somebody else to deal with. Like, he's just so far gone in that moment. And so you see his hurt, and you see his anger, and you see his self loathing, and there's just like, so much complicated there that is going to need to work itself out or incinerate him from the inside out.

Marisa  
Nate was someone who used to take care of spaces and clean them and have to deal with people's like, dirty, disgusting things. And so I think of him as someone who would be, you know, when he's healthy, someone who would be really obviously upset by something like that. So, yeah, Nate is not in a good place.

Christian  
Nate's not in a good place, and it is summed up at the end where like, you guys kind of mentioned it, his interactions with Isaac, and then with Roy, but the fact that he cannot accept affection from them. So Isaac doesn't really know what to do with him. But part of that is because of Nate's energy. And so after Nate has seen Isaac, give all these people like these silly, funny handshakes. The fact that he cannot engage in that after the precedents, precedent has already been set, is a statement that like he still feels like he's on the outside, even though Isaac approaches him. And the right thing really does throw him off, you know, for like reasons that I can kind of totally understand. But also at the same time, like he's not being brought in to replace you, we just kind of being brought in to do something different. But Roy, in about as affectionately as he can muster, gives Nate a nod and doesn't like growl at him or him and has had a good relationship with Nate in the past. And Nate doesn't view that as like, positive, he views that as threatening and scary. Like, that's when you know, someone has like, started to go too far down the road is when they can't accept affection. And they is completely incapable in that moment, of receiving affection from these other men.

Brett   
Which I do find interesting, ultimately, and that we're talking about dark, we've been talking about dark forests, right? And the way that Nate, Nate, and the way that Ted was able to sort of recognize that Isaac was in a dark forest and like, sort of how to help lead him out of that. The fact that like, we can see Nate just sort of like, free falling deeper and deeper in this episode, and that Ted sort of seems to us to be blissfully unaware he does give him a nice compliment with the suits and all of that and so like he clearly hasn't just forgotten about Nate but you know, with his with his attention divided elsewhere like Nick just can't deal and like to me as the viewer on this watching like that was just really hard.

Christian  
She's a rainbow is not a song that I remember hearing before this episode, but boy has it been stuck in my head ever since I saw probably because it takes up so much time in this episode. Brett that seems odd. Is that? Is that odd? Is that different? You

Brett   
You know, on the first watch, I didn't really think about it as much but as I've watched this episode, more and more. I have thought about like, this song serves like such a huge narrative purpose in this episode. I think it takes up like almost five minutes of screen time. Like I think the song is playing which is which is not normal. I think anyone who watches TV like if you stop and think about it, you'd be like, yeah, there's probably not a lot of songs that like are playing for five straight minutes of an episode. And so You know, we've seen Ted lasso the music team do this one of their songs, but not to this extent. And so, yeah, no, to answer your question, not normal. I think it works brilliantly. You know, they've named the episode rainbow. Like we've had another song about a rainbow playing already or ending with this song. She's a rainbow. And it's like, it's so brilliantly cut to like, match these hit points, right? Like, there's the lyric that says like that. You see her dressed in blue, and right when that happens, we see Julie Higgins and she's wearing her blue, you know, FC Richmond gear ready to meet up with her. Her husband Higgins and they are like their relationship is the sweetest and I love them so much. Me too. And then there's the like, you see her dressed in gold and we see Keeley and she's like in this gold puffer jacket or something that she's wearing. There's lots of other great Music in this episode, but because the song just takes up so much of the episode, like I think it's worth discussing a couple of things that are in it.

Marisa  
Well, it's Higgins ringtone for his wife, right? And we even get like a little nugget in episode three, where we hear first reference there. Yeah,

Brett   
yeah, we have a little easter egg. That's cute.

Marisa  
And I love that, you know, that's what happens in starts kind of Higgins and Rebecca's conversation about like, you know how to meet your wife, like, basically, you know, Higgins, who, who could be the butt of the joke, you know, and was in season one a lot. You know, in season two, he's always kind of this like sage wisdom like this, this guiding force for people like just to be good in general, right. So like, we wouldn't see Rebecca starting to trust him, like, you know, asking about relationships. And like, he just tells her basically, like, you have to be honest, like, you have to be yourself. You can't brand yourself, you know, which we got earlier, like as Kelly's talking to her about social media and stuff. And we just get that really honest. Take from Higgins. And also we get to see him not just being a good husband, but you know, he's a good dad too. And we talked about everyone else and their struggles with dads and he has five sons, and he's very involved in their lives and even says, I don't look over my voice. But I just I love that this is you know, that we get to celebrate not only people who are broken and broken relationships, but we get to come back to Higgins and his wife and that really sweet story and about how, you know, not everything has to be like hard like, you can have a lifelong marriage with someone that you trust in is your best friend. And, you know, I that's my favorite. I think to me, that's like the most romantic comedy thing about the whole episode. You know, all these little nuggets that we get in references to other things like that one little conversation between Rebecca and Higgins to me, like was just so sweet and honest.

Brett   
Yeah, I love that scene too. And I think that Higgins is lying about you know, being yourself is the best brand or whatever, in the context of that song. You know, he talks about like, I was trying to be a brooding punk. But then this, you know, this very uncharacteristic Rolling Stones song comes on, and I'm playing air upright bass in the bar, you know, like, so he's reverting back to his true self spilling beer on himself. And you know, because of that he meets Julie. And so, you know, we trace this through line using this, this instance and Higgins is real life with this song has experience. And we trace this through line all the way to the end of this episode, where Roy has his big epiphany and he realizes like, Yeah, I'm good at being a pundit. People think I'm funny people like me on Twitter, you know, they talk about me, but he realizes eventually deep down that if it's not what you're meant to do, you need to do something else and so he knows that he needs to do the thing that he he truly loves doing and you we see him realizing this and so I love that the way they've set it up with this song works so well for the end of the episode. And of course it's the thing that's playing as soon as he starts having this epiphany moment and running with his broken knee and I love like I said already like all the all the different, like hit points that we get, I won't do a total blow by blow but even the way that the weird strings come in, like when when he's after he passes Nate into like Digga Digga, digga Digga they're all like, like, creepy, like that's in the track like that is that's not sound editing, that's not adding anything like that's in the song. And it's like, no one really knows why, but it's just there. And so they are able even to use this like super drugs. Yes, they're even able to the music editing team is even able to use this very quirky string arrangement to their benefit, which I think is just really masterful.

Christian  
Earlier row when we were talking to you pointed out that this song was in an old Apple iMacad ad in 99. A nice little callback for them. And it was very popular. A personal computer device that Apple made a lot of money on. She's a rainbow, the way it was used was an interesting thought experiment for me as to how different Titleist would be if Apple hadn't purchased it, because Apple has more money than God. And they can like just do things that other media companies can't do. And they may want to do things that other media companies don't want to do. So the fact that number one, like they got this song cleared one time, and then they put it in and it's five minutes long, and they go back to the Rolling Stones and get it re cleared. I just don't think that if Titleist had been picked up by NBC or Netflix or whoever else, no offense to literally every other like medium production company out there that we get this episode, like we got it because I think Apple has the appreciation of music. And that gives people that creative freedom to do stuff like this. So it's a cool little marker for us to think about. What are other things as we watch TED last, so that would not have happened if it was not an Apple TV show.

Brett   
Before we leave the amazing work of art that is She's a rainbow. I just want to say this song features an instrument that has one of the coolest names it's called a Mellotron it is a wild keyboard instrument that I can't believe exists in the world because it's literally played by when you press a key like a roll of magnetic tape is like sounded and you will very much recognize the sound. If you've ever heard the song Strawberry Fields Forever by the Beatles. I know deep cut but you may have heard of it. But that sound is like a classic Mellotron sound and I love that it is in this song and that I get to talk about it on this podcast. And that's all that's that's the end of what I have to say about she's rainbow in an episode that is literally chock full of pop culture references because how could it not be if you're talking about rom coms? There's a couple of other ones that we should point out that are pretty significant to certain plot lines. One is when Rebecca is texting her mystery man, she says that he has sent her a quote from the poet Roca, and that has clearly like, you know, cost her heart to pitter patter. Yeah, well,

Christian  
I looked it up and it was one of those things were, you know, like, we don't recognize the name right away, but then you realize there is a familiarity to it. So he is widely recognized as a very lyrically intense German language poet, which to me, anyone who speaks German is lyrically intense, but apparently, like he really cranks it up. And his work is described as mystical and he's very diverse. Like he wrote a novel, he had collections of poetry, he has some volumes of correspondence. He deals with like communication and solitude and anxiety like things that we see in title so but he ends up being fairly popular in film and television and pop culture. So he has reference in the recent film that a lot of people have heard of JoJo rabbit, but then earlier films like only you and iG b goes down. So you've probably like heard him referenced or heard some of his stuff, because apparently he's one of the people that smart people like to talk about and name drop.

Marisa  
love only you Marissa Tomi, my namesake and Robert Downey Jr. Not my namesake.

Brett   
When you say that his work is described as mystical you don't happen to be talking about the American rapper, who is famous for the song called shake it fast.

Christian  
I do not know how fast Rocco was able to shake it or if he washed himself, or if he ever showed anybody what he was working with. remains to be determined until I can find some video. Confirmation. There are two things that aren't really pop culture references. In the strictest sense of the words, we do get a joke about Welsh independence from call in which it's a long season debate as to whether or not like Wales should wants to be a part of Great Britain or not. And then that is on the back of the Welsh dragon that we see Collin's scarf and Wrexham United being a club from Wales so we're getting a lot of whales love in the last the last couple of episodes. Also I just need to shout out Eni Aluko. She is the woman who is playing with Isaac down in the cage match and she's actually not acting when she is very good at soccer football. She's Nigerian English. She is currently the sporting director for Angel City FC, which is the new NWSL club In LA that is, I think, maybe the only soccer club and maybe one of the only sports teams in the world that is owned by majority, like a group of female owners. She played professional soccer for a long time for Chelsea, and you Ventus and a number of other teams, she scored 33 goals for the England national team. She is an author, and she's on television a lot in England as a television commentator for soccer. So she's a super big deal that is just kind of like, easy to miss because they don't really highlight her in this episode.

Brett   
Another not pop culture, but kind of pop culture. thing is that, in the scene where Ted and Roy are in the kebab shop, there's a lot of high specifically high church references. And I was just wondering, as someone who is a bit of a polity, nerd, what your take was on that scene, Christian,

Christian  
I thought it was funny. And I thought it was ambitious because one of the jokes that they use in there as Transubstantiation. 10 says, like I didn't know like the Transubstantiation could happen with a pita. And that is like an in the weeds religious reference. And it refers to a belief primarily with the Roman Catholic Church, that when people take communion, when like they eat the bread, that the elements of the bread and the wine, like they turn into the body and the blood of Jesus that is more than just like this symbolic thing. And so there's the appearance of the bread and the line, but there's something more going on there. And so for them to make that joke and a couple of other jokes that they have made, it's clear that there's someone in the writers room, who spent a lot of time like, they definitely made it through confirmation in a high church setting. So like Catholicism, or the Episcopal Church or something like that, because they know what they're talking about. And I've yet to really be able to pinpoint who's pitching those jokes. But when we do, we're gonna specifically invite them to just like, nerd out with us about those things.

Marisa  
Yes, and those are some of the things that we got to talk to Nadia Bolz-Weber about too, which is really fun. 

Christian  
The other church thing I would just point out is that soccer is probably the sport that when you like go to a match, it can most approximate a religious experience. So I think it's because of the communal nature of like what the crowd does before the match and throughout the match. And we do get a little piece of that when Roy is walking in. And when everybody is singing, and he just kind of like takes that deep breath reminiscent of the deep breath that Rebecca takes, as she's trying to like get herself piped up. And to me, there was just a spiritual imagery there of like him walking back into the communion of saints, and like being filled with the Spirit and and going and finding his place. And so if you've never been to a soccer match where people are wiling out, and they're singing the songs like you really should go because there is something unique about that experience that generally gets you like hooked in and stuck in.

Brett   
Well, it makes sense because I feel like for folks who aren't just in choirs in their life, like probably two of the places they sing most often would be at like sports matches, especially if you're in Europe and you're singing at these you know, these these matches every week you're singing the same songs and like the the elements of ritual that like are both like present within the songs and like you said everything that happens throughout and there were a couple of other there was quite a bit of soccer in this episode compared to some of the recent episodes so what what did you find that was like, believable and and less believable in this episode,

Christian  
most convincing outside of her office when they is walking awkwardly wall to wall in that tiny hallway that is a really funny joke for us. It says hashtag COYGH which will be short for come on you greyhounds which like come on you whatever like come on you timbers come on you gunners come on you sounders Come on, you can Aries that is something that people at any soccer club would say. And so then that hashtag has become very popular. Not that specific one because I don't think there are any other soccer clubs that are greyhounds, but hashtag COYS whatever is very real that is steeped in real internet culture. The least soccer thing I saw, there's just no way that Roy can is not able to waltz into that soccer stadium. So close his retirement like they know who he is, and they're letting them in. It did remind me of a funny story I heard recently about Patrick Ewing, who played for the New York Knicks but he played like with the original dream team. 

Marisa  
We had all the Dream Team cups.

Christian  
McDonald's, I'm loving it and he's currently the coach of Georgetown Hoyas Georgetown University. And when the is when they recently played in a tournament in Madison Square Garden where his picture like probably hangs like banner size somewhere and his number and name are in the rafters. He didn't have his like tag out his access tag. And so the person literally like didn't know who he was and wasn't going to let Patrick Ewing, this mammoth seven foot man who's like very clearly a former NBA basketball player into the arena. A place where he had played like so famously for so many years. And so like, you know, it could happen ostensibly, but probably not a year after Roy retires.

Marisa  
Y'all, this was a big episode chock full of so many wonderful references and quotes, but do you have a favorite?

Christian  
Yes. When Keeley plagiarized the way that I say goodbye to Brett every time we're on the phone together. F*** you're amazing. Let's invade France.

Brett   
Her facial expression she delivers that line is worthy of a Golden Globe in itself. Yeah, I'm sad for her that it didn't win her one. I think that the one I would choose is I'm gonna go with Higgins again. I think in this last episode, I'm gonna go with Higgins again. But I loved his story that he told and how like honest he was and just how earnest he is and he says I suppose the best brand is just being yourself. I love his recognition of like branding can still be used to a certain effect but it should never be like it can never be successful if it's fake. And so our can ever be as successful and be we I think we see that in his life by like the very real love that he has with his both on screen life and real life life. Who's the same person the same person? Lucky guy.

Marisa  
Mine will be Ted as he's talking to Isaac getting ready to meet Roy and they're you know teasing about how Roy's hangry all the time. Ain't no side eye like a Roy Kent side eye.

Christian  
was a Roy can't satellite 24/7 Angry

Marisa  
365 366 Show sleepier is also a really good rom com if you want another one to watch. Anyway.

Christian  
Okay, that's our show. Thanks for joining with us to the other side of the rainbow greyhounds. If you'd like to dive even deeper into the themes of this episode, you can find more Tableau content in our show notes. You'll find the link to our extensive notes in the episode description.

Marisa  
You can also keep the conversation going on Twitter and Instagram. Our handle on both is @tedlassopod. It's a great way for us to connect with each other and for y'all to share your insights on the show. This episode of Richmond till we die is brought to you by gin and kerosine productions. It was produced by me, Marissa,

Brett   
me, Brett. And me, Christian.

Marisa  
If you enjoyed this conversation, please take a moment to subscribe to Richmond till we die on whatever app you're listening to this episode.

Brett   
If you have access to an Apple device, we'd love it. If you'd head over to the Apple podcasts app and give us a quick five star review. Did you know that you can now review podcasts on Spotify, you should do it give us a five star rating there as well. It'll help more people find and hear our show. And we also want to take a moment to highlight our fantastic new podcast cover art. We've had it for a few weeks now but Big thanks to our talented friend, Lexi for the amazing new design. I'm Brett signing off for Marissa and Christian. Thanks for listening. Until next time, cheers y'all. Sell never let go Jack except I will Bye.

Christian  
Bye.